Archbishop John J. Myers (c) under attack from the usual suspects:
New Jersey Star-Ledger ace reporter Mark Mueller (l) and angry ex-priest Bob Hoatson (r)
Last year, the reporting from the New Jersey Star-Ledger about Newark Archbishop John J. Myers and his handling of decades-old abuse cases was so bad that the paper was forced to issue a correction and admit to its numerous errors.
Now, after the paper's attempt to oust the Catholic bishop failed, the paper is desperately trying to roil up anger over renovation work at a residence in which Myers will eventually live during his upcoming retirement in 2016.
Just the facts, ma'am
The Star-Ledger would have you believe that food pantries and disadvantaged Catholic school children are being starved of money in order to build a purported "mansion" for the archbishop. In truth, a recent press release from the Archdiocese of Newark completely rebuts these claims. The facts:
- No parishioner funds or contributions to the Archdiocesan Annual Appeal have been used on the project;
- The renovations are being paid for by donations earmarked from individuals for that purpose and by the sale of an unneeded property that will also fund other ministries; and
- The Archdiocese will pay real estate taxes on the property.
Some take issue with the expenses of the project at a time when the Archdiocese has decided to close some of its schools. However, while $145 million has been poured into Archdiocesan schools over the past decade, enrollment has also dropped nearly 45% in Catholic schools in Newark in the past 15 years. Thus low enrollment has made the closure of four schools not only necessary but simply inevitable.
The Star-Ledger's not-so-hidden agenda exposed – again
In a recent article, the Star-Ledger claims that "22,000" signatures have supposedly been collected in a petition demanding that the Archdiocese sell the disputed property.
But TheMediaReport.com has learned that an early review of the petition reveals that fewer than 500 of the signatures are of people who actually live within the Archdiocese. In addition, some names appear multiple times, and a heavy percentage of the signatories are not even Catholic.
In other words, the so-called "petition" reveals all the elements of the witch hunt against the Catholic Church which the Star-Ledger has been waging for the last several years. We were not surprised to see perpetual gadfly/ex-priest Robert Hoatson surface in the petition drive. Hoatson has been spearheading a floundering (and comical) campaign to oust Archbishop Myers.
People of good will – with knowledge of the facts – can debate the extent of the expenditures that have been made. However, it should be noted that the Catholic Church does not repay the dedication and hard work of its retired clerics by consigning them to live out the remainder of their lives in a cardboard box under a freeway.
The public shouldn't be fooled. This is another agenda-driven attack against the Catholic Church in New Jersey. The purported "outrage" about Archbishop Myers' retirement residence barely extends beyond the editorial rooms of the Star-Ledger and the basements of the usual Church cranks.
If anyone is interested in seeing the original stories, free of this site's spin, you can find links below:
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2014/02/newark_archbishops_future_retirement_home_valued_at_800g_undergoing_a_500g_addition.html
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2014/03/archbishops_pricey_retirement_home_spurs_backlash_as_parishioners_withhold_donations.html
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2014/04/angry_about_archbishops_pricey_retirement_home_parishioners_to_deliver_17000_signatures_sunday.html
Mark, I read them and I guess I think that it is you guys who have some weird hatred of the bishop and thus you are the ones doing the spinning.
How arrogant! To think that TMR readership would need the notoriously biased author(s) of the SL tripe regularly lobbed against the Church to advise us 'poor, duped, misguided believers' to read the 'truth' for ourselves reveals the incredible tone-deafness of this corrupt and crony-prone NJ media outlet.
Why, we couldn't possibly disagree with their relentless persecution of our Church, if only we saw [read] things 'their way' [spin] we'd understand how really, really bad the Church is?!
Sure.
The Star-less Hedger splits it leftist agenda between pounding Christie and pounding the Church. Both 'soft' targets will surely outlive this sham of a newspaper. Meanwhile, Booker got a total free pass into the US Senate (a SL endorsement), without a peep out of this rag regarding his criminal investments and associations, chronic absence from his city and state during his MIA tenure as Mayor of Newark (where he spent all his time 'Hollywooding' in NYC) and his 'SuperHero' antics.
Hey There SL 'investigative journalists' – that leftist NJ constituency that you serve/worship? - they DON'T READ, you two dopes…you're putting yourselves out of work!
Mark Mueller, If you want a Pulitzer prize just look deeply into SNAP and speak to victims who KNOW that SNAP's the church. You can reach me at godlessjim@gmail.com. (A funny friend gave me the handle).
The Slime Hedger apologist provides three links, one per month, railing against the Catholic Church (any Fairness Doctrine app here?) for various reasons (and this isnt bigotry or harassment?). Is this the usual policy for them – a negative story every month, in perpetuity [not much longer for this outlet, thank God], against the Catholic Church?
Does the Sledger have a similar reporting policy for Jews and Muslims (we already know they are owned by American Atheists' "Frankenstein' Silverman)? I can't seem to locate many stories (much less one per month) critical of those religious organizations in the Garden State; such as the extensive money laundering and pedophilia rings in the states (and well beyond) synagogues or the Islamic 'centers-mosques' theologically-based mandate that adherents kill infidels (all non-Muslims) in their host nation if they can't force conversions to Islam.
I don't think we'll see the same, regularly scheduled hammers jobs on those religions that we've seen for Catholics.
Here's an idea for the US media – stay out of Catholic Church business. As you are clearly tools (operatives) for the progressive state agenda (the Fourth Estate is dead), the First Amendment applies here. Remember, the church-state relationship addressed in that Amendment was designed to keep the oppressive state out of religion (please, do a [real, not 'revisionist'] history crash course, already), and not the other way around, as has been distorted by the leftists.
Mind your own business and let the Church, which is the faithful [not dissident] Catholic laity, deal with it's own issues, internally. Stop lying and distorting truths to support your ideological agenda.
[edited by moderator] nobody believes this garbage. Try as you may to bash SNAP, the Star Ledger, Mark Mueller, Bob Hoatson or anyone else, the TRUTH remains the same, and it sure isn't found here. Oh and by the way, you left out the story about Archbishop Myers and the Archdiocese putting working middle class Americans out of business by trying to corner the headstone business. The families that have owned these business and the men who cut the stones are losing work because the AD wants all the money. These Catholic families had worked with the AD for years but now it is time to push the little businesses aside so Newark can make up some of the money people no longer donate, all this as they, the Archdiocese failed to pay taxes due the state. But they were not selling these stones (even though they were charging similar prices to the cost of a stone) they were just selling the right to inscribe names on the stones…wink, wink. Just one more reason Archbishop Myers really needs to go.
Will be waiting to see the SL exposé on this one:
http://www.tbanj.org/memorial-park/plaques
Total frauds, hypocrites and bigots – the whole, sordid Know Nothing lot of you-
We have a comment from ‘Another Mark’ (the 24th, 155AM). I won’t try to imagine what the moderator here might have edited and I’ll just go with the material we have.
A global assertion (“nobody believes”) that is completely unsupported, and then tied to a mere epithet (“this garbage”).
Then a scream-y all-caps, which is so very often an indicator that a statement that cannot be expected to engage a reader’s respectful attention by the competence of its argument, can perhaps force some sort of attention simply by being screamed or shouted. In this case, we have the commenter’s assertion in regard to whatever he imagines (but does not wish to take the trouble to explain) about “truth”; and thus we might recall that unhappy characteristic of pomo culture nowadays: the phrase ‘personal reality’ is no longer considered oxymoronic.
Then another assertion that hovers on the boundary of a) personal feeling expressed as a global and total statement of established fact and b) an epithet (that “truth” “sure isn’t found here”).
Then off the track with some bits about the Archdiocese putting “working middle class Americans” (they are not, apparently, two different classes) “out of business by trying to corner the headstone business”. The commenter might have realized that many readers are not familiar with the specifics of these local issues and could have explained further (and more cogently) but instead we simply get the vivid bits, unconnected by any narrative logic and apparently need to be held-together simply by an externally-applied animus toward the Archdiocese.
Which leads me to think: if Abuseniks actually think the way they write, then it’s no wonder they are constantly suspecting or discovering things previously unknown (to them); their initial conceptual sweep of an issue is so insufficient that they are almost guaranteed to be surprised (or ‘shocked’ or ‘stunned’) as the matter is further explored. Because they had been quite satisfied that their initial sweep had been more than sufficient and now have to explain (to themselves as well as to others) how it has turned-out that their initial sweep (and their satisfaction with it) was not sufficient at all.
Publion, a good analysis. However may I add that as with all liberals/atheists/Marxists/ they suffer from a genetic condition that renders the liberal brain incapable of properly assessing the information about reality that comes in from the periphery of the central nervous system. I refer to the senses of sight (reading, watching things on t.v. etc) and hearing, (listening to commentaries etc) as well as seeing the changes in society since they were young. In other words liberals can't see how their own policies and beliefs have brought our civilizarion to the brink of ruin. As for religion, there is no center in their "minds" to believe in anything which they can't see….They live in their own world but they have all the money and wordly power behind them now and they have succeeded in dumbing down too many people.
Looney Liberals own dogs (leftist ideology) attack their owners.
You were warned.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/04/04/inside-the-massacre-at-the-newark-star-ledger-the-paper-that-makes-chris-christie-squirm.html
Hope AB Meyers enjoys the retirement home (in stunning Hunterdon County) that he earned over the past four plus decades of dedication and service to the Catholic Church.
Oh yea a bishop of the impoverished Jesus deserves a 2 million dollar crash pad. Ah the humility!
Who are you to judge?
Just as the SL set itself up as judge, jury and executioner for AB Meyers for years, only to be forced to downsize to the point of virtual non-existence, all your chickens will come home to roost, eventually. Meyers retires in comfort (as determined among/within his Church); SLs henchmen head for the unemployment lines.
Your and other outsiders opinions and interpretations of the morality of these internal decisions don't matter any more than do your opinions or interpretations about/of other religions clerics lifestyles. Do you lose sleep over the Rabbi's or Imam's retirement packages?
Here's hoping NJ finally gets an honest newspaper outlet to replace the Democratic-progresives hacks at the SL, soon. The US is rejecting the bias/bigotry that defines the msm/Hollywood (nearly one in the same) in every format, let's see how long any of them stay in business by rejecting/ignoring the will of the people.
Robertson, you spund like a professional Catholic basher to me. Don't believe your sob stories about the beatings etc, at all! I know what the church was like in the 50's and early 60's because I was an altar boy for seven years from 1954 to 1961. My parish had a parochial school taught by nuns. Never heard anything like your B.S. In fact, your name sounds more protestant that Catholic…Just a little too yankee-ish for belief..
Gee John I never knew logic and reason belonged to one part of the country or even was regulated to the borders of the U.S. I'm not crying so there's no sob story. I'm telling you just what happened. i'll let the horrific speak for itself. It needs no embelishment.
My dad was protestant. Thanks. What's a good catholic surname: Hitler? Mussolini; Le Val?
I'll tell you who I am to judge. I come from a long line of catholic working people who scraped to pay catholic tuition. Who sacrificed themselves to pay for Catholic fund raisers and for church and rectory buildings. That's who the f&*@ I am ..
Now let's see who you are. Un mask, El Maskero.
Sounds like the Church paid you and your "Catholic" ancestors back tenfold, far more than you ever contributed.
For the sake of sanity and children being molested outside of the Church today, let's just call it a draw…and move on, now.
[edited by moderator]
I was so lucky to recieve my hard earned, on every level, compensation for being raped as a 16 year old by one of your out of control clerics.
Would that you had been raped by a priest, D. Then you might, I say might, you are a tad thick, get the reality of what we victims have gone through.
Oh but that's right! You were too much a "man" to be raped.You would have rope a doped him. You are so butch! What a tough guy. My perpetrator had been a Army Ranger in WW2. He clocked two students in a fight and they were both big atheIetes. I weighed about 100 lbs.
My family scraped for centuries for your nonsense. My being raped was not about getting my families money back from the church. It was about compensating the damage the church had caused me, unnecessarily. Believe me; my settlement was far less than I deserved because the harm caused was far greater than the monies given me.
If you have so much money why not pay the people you've raped?
Would that I might, I say might, you are a tad thicker, get hit by car, intentionally, I might, I say might, want to report it immediately, that would the offender get caught immediately, removed from society, I say might, would that others be saved similar fates?
Might you, more than just a tad thick, understand how it is thoroughly and sustainably unbelievable that so many adolescent homosexuals can claim being 'raped' by actively homosexual priests (hardly celibates), wait decades to report such crimes, and then sue the Church for "harm" (the 'raping of children by pedophiles"), all the while demanding that the sane, normal segment of the population pile on this sick, twisted deviant-laden leftist and antiCatholic bandwagon?
I might not.
If memory serves, JR reported himself to be an outstanding scholarship student at the Catholic high school he attended, did he not?
I entered J. Serra High School freshman year, 1960, on a full scholarship.( I don't know about being "outstanding") My grades plummeted around all the violence from the religious teachers and the male milleau,( where, moronically, meanness passed as masculinity).I lost my scholarship sophomore year and worked after school to pay my own tuition costs ( then S10 a month!!!, now $ 7000 a year!!!)
The lap rubs and kisses and the hits and violence we received from Bro Barney in 9th grade our freshman year. Told us we were at these clowns mercy. What they wanted happened, right or wrong.
. (I'm, right now in the middle of my 50 year reunion. The emails posted from former students about the beatings from the teachers was the first and possibly the major thing; they remembered from our years there. One guy remember ver batum which teacher pounded what student and why and when, that's 50 years later. Nice memories huh?)
I received an email from a former marianist teacher at my school.(I was in shock. I couldn't believe it). He would beat students with a wooden dowle. He left the order and church in '66. And he appologized, to me at least, when I called him on the terror, the fear and pain he had caused us. He thought that was how to maintain control over us. He mistook, he told me,our fear for respect. He is not now, who he was then. I forgave him because he's learned. he'd gotten it; But we, who were terrorized, will never forget what was done to us or in front of us.
Odd how the beaters were always the religious never the lay teachers at my school. (Let's hear it for the god of love.)
The statistics on abuse in schools, then and now, contradict your pity-party stories.
State run schools suffer far more abuse cases (of all kinds) than do Catholic schools.
But, hey, don't let the facts get in the way of a "good" story, Oliver.
Delphin,
Check on whether the two studies were comparable. I once looked into it and found the parameters difference distortive. For example, in the public school study, are they counting as abuse a 22 year old teacher's assistant making a flirtatious remark to a senior girl who could be 19 in the big city ghetto schools where flirtatious remarks are constant as a custom. Catholic studies would be concerned only with dangerous acts which would mean great number differences. Double check on that aspect.
If you read the John Jay Report, you’ll see that “inappropriate remarks” qualified as “abuse” as well. It was not just “dangerous acts.”
http://www.usccb.org/issues-and-action/child-and-youth-protection/upload/The-Nature-and-Scope-of-Sexual-Abuse-of-Minors-by-Catholic-Priests-and-Deacons-in-the-United-States-1950-2002.pdf … corrected link
From page ten of the John Jay Report:
Type and Location of Offenses
" Priest abusers were accused of committing more than twenty types of sexual offenses,
ranging from touching outside the clothes to penetration."
It goes on to say that the most minor offenses were touching outside the clothes….no mention of verbal only offenses at all. The public school report was faulted for conflating verbal figures with tactile offenses….see wiki Charl Shakeshaft.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charol_Shakeshaft
bill bannon: John Jay Report made “no mention of verbal only offenses at all.”
You are completely wrong. See Table 4.4.1 from the 2004 report:
Table 4.4.1 ALLEGED ACTS OF ABUSE, BY GENDER
Behavior Alleged GENDER Combined
Males Females Totals
Verbal (sexual talk) 885 215 1,100
11.5% 12% 11.6%
Shown Pornography 223 9 232
2.9% .5% 2.4%
and the table goes on …
See the link:
http://www.usccb.org/issues-and-action/child-and-youth-protection/upload/The-Nature-and-Scope-of-Sexual-Abuse-of-Minors-by-Catholic-Priests-and-Deacons-in-the-United-States-1950-2002.pdf
Both Bishops involved ( Hebda stood up for Myers ) are ignoring Vatican II….keep in mind as you read the below extract that the mansion is no where's near the poor of Newark yet it's size is supposedly justified by a working retirement, will have two pools and an elevator for three floors…and Hebda stands to live there one day…
DECREE ON THE MINISTRY AND LIFE OF PRIESTS
PRESBYTERORUM ORDINIS
PROMULGATED BY HIS HOLINESS,
POPE PAUL VI
ON DECEMBER 7, 1965
" Led by the Spirit of the Lord, who anointed the Savior and sent him to evangelize the poor,(53) priests, therefore, and also bishops, should avoid everything which in any way could turn the poor away. Before the other followers of Christ, let priests set aside every appearance of vanity in their possessions. Let them arrange their homes so that they might not appear unapproachable to anyone, lest anyone, even the most humble, fear to visit them."
That is Vatican Council II. Here is God's word on which it might be based:Isaiah 5:8.
" Woe to you that join house to house and lay field to field, even to the end of the place: shall you alone dwell in the midst of the earth
I'd like 'bill bannon' to cite any Jewish, Islamic, reformed 'prosperity' gospel types, Mormons or other religions laws regarding the restrictions on or guidelines for their clergy's retirement packages.
Notice how this topic has turned to simple, unadulturated Catholic-bashing, whether current affairs, or going back 2000 years.
Yet, these same 'wolves' can't seem to locate any scripture, doctrine or other Catholic teachings to challenge their progressive (false) interpretations on marriage, fornication, abortion or euthanasia.
Odd, isn't it?
Delphin,
I read the entire Bible and the entire Summa Theologica. Lol….I'm against divorce, fornication, abortion and euthanasia as mortal sins….and gay acts…see Romans 1:26-27 which condemns both male and female gay acts. Why did you put my name in half quotes?
You sin everytime you argue in an inordinant manner that includes slights and insults….or read peoples' minds on other topics rashly.
Sorry you're wrong about so much.
Especially since you've told Delphin Damnation off so beautifully.
I'm against Paul, the man who ruined christianity with his old testament judgements. Jesus said, We were not to judge, remember? And he never said dick about gay people.
You follow the stupidvisor, Paul. if you want to. I'll stick with what the boss, J.C., said.
The main user of euthanasia in the 20th century was that little catholic Austrian fellow Adolph something who was Sieg Hieled by many a catholic bishop with very few exceptions.
I support people with terminal painful illnesses having assisted suicide if they want it. If they want it nobody else.
But thank you Bill Bannon for putting the mad dog in his place. You said it well.
'bill bannon' is against many a thing traditional Roman Catholic; please do review some comments within another forum several years ago (hasn't changed much) and the inevitable conclusion of his typical style of dialogue, and his diversionary tactics/M.O.
http://againstallheresies.blogspot.com/2007/07/rorate-caeli-making-complicated-simple.html
It may be time to issue Troll Alerts and invoke Godwin's Law for any more dissident/ anarchist/ leftist/antiCatholic launched NAZI and Hitler torpedos.
Time to elevate the debate beyond the low bar intentionally set according to some commenters high school fixation – a place where they are rather emotionally stuck and engaged in endless tail-chasing.
It is also time to revisit TMR moderation of labels such as "Dearie" while permitting attacks, like "mad dog", to slip through, repeatedly. Let's remove the handicaps that are favoring the antiCatholics (regardless of perceived or claimed entitlement class) here- let them find their own ways out of their self-imposed brain mazes. Let everyone paddle their own canoe-
Why does Meyers need two swimming pools and an elevator? Why can't he live with the other retired priests?
Why is it your business where or how a retired priest lives, Tim?
Please explain your role and responsibility in this Church decision-making process (which involved a clergy-laity review panel)?
Who's determining or approving your benefits or retirement lifestyle?
He needed one for each of his feet. Don't be silly.
(Sorry, the spacing seems off in this post.)
On the 27th at 1112AM we get yet another submission for which there
exists nothing in the line of corroboration. My interest here is only
in noting the Playbook techniques involved.
The amazing point is that although the fact of the scholarship
undercuts the entire bit about the 'working class' family having to
scrimp in order to pay the tuition bills (let alone having to scrimp
"for centuries" – which either indicates a) a promiscuous use of
unannounced metaphor or b) an assertion of purported fact which is
inaccurate on its face), yet JR manages to ignore that inconvenient reality
and press right on with his ever-prepared talking-points as to his
'story'.
But that sudden skipping-over to the prepared talking-points is not
simply a personal tic. It is necessary, in best Playbook style, in
order to keep any readers or hearers from pausing to contemplate the
implications of the claims: this was a student who somehow was given a
full scholarship, and who almost immediately (certainly before Freshman
year was over) demonstrated his inability to use the opportunity. And just why that might have been or how that might be explained are questions that logically admit of more than merely the proffered talking-points explanation.
In light of this implication then, lying hidden in plain sight and beyond
which the Playbook seeks to quickly manipulate us, the response of
the school administrators to the sudden (and apparently roundabout)
claim or report of this student's being-abused takes on a different
aspect: this was a full-scholarship student who was not doing well at
all – especially in the subject in which, by amazing coincidence, the
soon-to-be alleged abuser taught – and was in danger of losing the
scholarship (also thus casting into a new light the student's
hesitation in regard to telling his parents about the failures).
We are then meant to take as credible that the reason for the failure
to perform up to scholarship standards (JR may want to consult his own
previous claims on this site as to the outstanding quality of his
(allegedly pre-abuse) academic performance) was the "religious teachers
and the male milieu [correction supplied] (where, moronically, meanness
passed as masculinity)". Thus – by amazing coincidence – Religion and
Masculinity were the culprits that caused the loss of the scholarship
and the failure to perform up to scholarship standards; the student
himself was merely the victim (and this is even before we get to the
alleged abuse bits).
We are then given bits about "lap rubs and kisses" – and readers may
consider the credibility of all that as they will, factoring in the thought that we are apparently expected to believe that "lap rubs and kisses" (or even an adolescent experience of whatever else it was that it was claimed he experienced) can so derange an otherwise high-performing high-school student that he is not only prevented from making any further academic progress, but is also pushed backwards to a pre-high-school level of conceptual and linguistic functioning … which condition then continues up to the present, spanning half-a-century of time and opportunity for recovery or improvement.
This is not science; this is a tortie's trying to make the best and
most attractive possible theory of a dodgy case.
(The temporal sequence connecting the "lap rubs and kisses" to the
"rape" or "rapes" is not clear here, nor whether the alleged
perpetrator was one and the same in both types of instance.)
Then the mildly histrionic declamation about being "right now in the
middle of my 50 year reunion": if this means an actual event, then
hadn't that taken place some weeks ago? Or are we meant to infer that
the entire 12-month period constitutes some sort of (semi-liturgical?)
'Moment'? And we are informed – as it were – about various grads
"emails" concerning "beatings" (which isn't quite the same thing as
alleged "lap rubs and kisses"), although apparently there will be or has been no formal action in regard to the “beatings”.
Then("Nice memories, huh?")we are manipulated toward simply accepting
all of the foregoing profferings as accurate by simply 'empathizing'
with the(claimed) emotional consequences (of actions which we are not really
sure ever happened) – which is classic Playbook.
Then for some dramatic frisson in the story (the "shock"; and JR
"couldn't believe it" … in which status, I imagine, he is not alone here)
he allegedly but so very usefully (for the script dynamics here) gets an
email from a "former marianist teacher" [sic] who "would beat students
with a wooden dowle". Although this teacher allegedly left the Order
and the Church in 1966 we are proffered the vision of his having – 48
years later – sent an evidentiary-grade email admission as to his "beating" of students (which, astute readers may have noticed, has moved us beyond sex-abuse matters to the even more mushily-defined ‘physical abuse’ arena).
And then, charmingly, JR "forgave him" – providing (by the most amazing
coincidence) the set-up in this scene for a lovely and yet heroic performance by the hero of this little bit of autobiography.
And, for added effect, that this former teacher's alleged actions had -
but of course – "terrorized" his students. Just the bit for that spicy post-9/11 frisson.
So much that's "odd" in all of this, as even the story-teller himself
seems to sense.
I was a gay child. This was my first time with no girls in my class or women teachers to soften male anger and meanness.( Meanness always passed for masculinity at Serra; and obviously at Delphin's school as well.). The violence and competition was night to the Sisters of St Joseph of Carondolet's (my grade school teachers) day. This was hugely different from my grade school. Where we only had one psycho nun. Sister Victorine who punched one 4th grader in the face and his uniform white shirt was covered in blood. I mean covered. The whole front of it.
My grades plummeted in this all male daymare. Some people don't respond well to violence. I was one of those people. Thank goodness! From Delphin and Publicans posts they are not like me in that regard.
Again – recalling my interest in pointing-out Playbook material – I note that ‘Delphin’ asked ‘Bill Bannon’ if BB could provide some citations or quotes to back up his material. In response to which (the 28th, 753PM) we get – waitttttt forrrrr ittttttttttttt – not citations or quotations, but instead simply the (rather remarkable) claim that he has “read the entire Bible and the entire Summa Theologica”. My my – and did anything strike him as being of particular interest in the Summa? Or of particular relevance to the thread of discourse here?
But then – for so learned a mind – we get an oddly familiar “Lol” with a recitation of the various things he feels not-supportive about.
And then and then but then but then: BB doth undertake and declaim that ‘Delphin’ doth “sin every time” [correction supplied] that ‘Delphin’ doth “argue in an inordinant manner” [sic; correction here would be ‘inordinate’] – a rather curiously junior-varsity error for a mind competent enough to read not only the entire Bible but the Summa Theologica (and – I suppose we are to presume – comprehend the material of both works).
But again, the curiously-familiar Abusenik tendency to not only declaim but denounce and issue these little pronunciamentos.
On the 29th at 1205PM we are informed – by someone who is either a garden-variety atheist or something very close to it – that “Paul [is] the man who ruined christianity with his old testament judgements” because (we are lectured by this garden-variety atheist) “Jesus said” that “we were not to judge”.
Clearly, since Jesus expressed a number of clear judgments, then the assertion about not-judging needs to be further refined. As to whether Paul “ruined Christianity” – apparently vitiating Jesus’ teaching in the process – readers might wish to consult more reliably-informed sources before coming to any conclusions.
Thus too we are presented with the bemusing – not to say boffo – scenario of a garden-variety atheist explaining why he will “stick with what the boss, J.C., said”.
But then we get more rather grossly uninformed Nazi-era material. Actually, it was Bishop Galen of Munster who spoke out against the Reich’s euthanizing of lebensunwurdiges Lebens and the Bishop’s speaking-out actually resulted in Hitler backing-off the program.
And are we meant to infer that since Hitler was nominally Catholic … well, what are we supposed to infer from that?
But then JR apparently pulls a nearby 3×5 card and slides into Vienna’s Cardinal Innitzer’s initial effort to see if he could gain some traction for Austrian Catholics with the new post-Anschluss Nazi government by offering the Nazi salute in public. Pius XI called him to the Vatican immediately and explained that there would and could be no such efforts at ingratiation; Innitzer returned to Vienna, spoke out against various aspects of Nazi rule, and was soon physically attacked by Nazi goons in his residence.
But the bit about Hitler being “Sieg Hieled by many a catholic bishop with very few exceptions” [sic] is a grossly inaccurate historical howler that need only be left up where it was put, and no doubt about the boffo at all.
SOS new day. I'm the problem. Not my rapist or his bosses that did not supervise him. I'm the problem. The 16 year old 100 lb extremely religious me is the problem. Sure.
Well, I'm your problem now. How do you like me so far?
When Jesus is right he's right. When Paul's wrong. He thinks he's doing right. Most likely because he never met Jesus. He only saw him in a dream. All the prescriptions against same sex anything come from Paul and the Old Testament. Show me where your diety spoke personally on this subject. And since we are on Jesus what did he say about child abusors? Better a millstone were strung around their necks (more or less)
Garden variety atheist? You mean like Voltaire? He suggested mankind should live peacably with each other and "watch our garden grow". Voltaire's a very nice compliment thank you P.
I lost my scholarship after freshman year. I then worked after school cleaning a machine lathe shop paying my own tuition.
Whining for yourself again? You are only 'the problem' because, even though you were fully compensated for your 'victimization', you still cry foul (you were paid off- move along now) and you still practice your hatred of Catholics here at TMR, where faithful Catholics congregate. We don't go to dissident blogs to attack you, you come here to attack- you are the aggressor- we just defend ourselves- which is a constant point of annoyance to you and others like you. We are required to defend ourselves and our faith, we will never stop defending truth and calling out lies.
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What is with the singular-rapist vs. plural-rapists claimant toggle that infuses a victim-claimants comments here?
Was it one Catholic clergy 'rapist' or two?
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The prescriptions against same sex anything come from nature and God, not from any apostle, then or now.
Buy a clue, already.
Really "prescriptions"???? Nature has multitudes of same sex relationships from Dolphins to Penquins. God who? Which god? Not Jesus god. only the old testament god "made" antigay "prescriptions." Supposedly.. Jesus came with a new covenent: Love thy neighbor not judge they neighbor. I'm talking about acts between adults here. U know what Jesus said about harming kids.
Do you really think the pagan world would have converted so easily to christianity if gay people were made the boogey men/women earily on in that conversion?
The Archbishop is truly a man of faith. We are all of faith. What you say about one individual, just testifies that you don't know this man, nor understand the catholic faith. What a person does, when they retire is none of our business. Give me a break. They work 24/7 for all of us. Our priests, bishops and so forth make nothing compared to a businessman. To raise money for retirement, well he has those that believe. And for the abuse cases, we need to let it go and move on in our faith. This is what divides all of us. Let go and move on. Did not Jesus say we need to forgive one another and to love one another. So let's stop and go forward. God Bless everyone.
Two swimming pools! 2 whole swimming pools that parishiners paid for!!! What's he doing practicing walking on water?
When the vast majority of Catholic Americans no longer have pensions to sustain them in old age. This schmuck has 2 whole swimming pools. Jesus would weep.
It would be interesting to know who is behind this story and website because the spin and sophistry are breathtaking. Archbishop Myers has not closed 4 schools, as is suggested, but 83 and many of those are inner-city locations where low-income parents are desperate for alternatives to dangerous and failing public schools. If there has been a drop in enrollment in Archdiocesan schools, could it possibly be because the Archbishop has, throughout his career, stood on the side of child molesters instead of protecting children. In both Peoria and Newark he has covered-up criminal activity and attempted to reinstate to priestly ministry acknowledged sexual predators. He even gave permission for a defrocked child molester to move into a parish rectory next to a parochial school. And he has done NOTHING to promote Catholic education, develop endowments and find new management models, as have other dioceses in New Jersey and throughout the nation. He believes that it is he who should be served, not the families entrusted to him. He has reaped what he has sown. The decent thing for him to do would be to step aside and let an Archbishop with a pastoral heart clean up the mess and devastation, but the rapacious Myers will hang on until forced to go.
Thank you so much for the truth Mr. Cassidy. It won't be acknowledged as the truth by the deniers here. But the truth it is. What a happy surprise.
America is a defacto fascist nation now. The plutocracy rules. Truth is at a premium. You are on the right side here and you seem to be a Catholic. More power to you friend. Save your church from the royalist mind set that is destroying it from the inside. Jesus would like you.
Meyers is stepping aside, he's retiring, so, what's your problem?
You threw a lot of 'junk' out there, beginning with a swipe against TMR (totally capable of defending itself) and ending in a completely unsupported (facts, documentation might help?) SNAP-like diatribe againt this AB- is this how you open up dialogue on your own blog (how unSunLit), or are you looking for a freebie from the Star Ledger?
Why would you choose to jump on SNAPs or Star Ledgers and the rest of the antiCatholics bandwagon by practicing the very same drive-by attack tactics against Catholic clergy (and ideology) that you claim to abhor (regardless of Meyers 'guilt' or innocence)?
You got something, anything better than TMR on this article's topic, bring it, we're all eyes here, but, don't just pile on to juice up your own site's numbers. That's just creepy (as are most politicians-lobbyists).
Be careful who's bandwagon you jump on there, Tonto-lita.
http://anglicancatholicpriest.blogspot.com/2010/07/gay-roman-catholic-seminaries.html
"Things" (ideology, politics) surrounding the Catholic faith are never uncomplicated.
The great painter James Ensor in a huge painting in the early 1900's (that's at the Getty here in L.A.,) shows Jesus coming into Brussels amidst a Socialist march. The rich are on their balconies and one is vomiting on the marchers. Jesus would be doing the retching at this site.
I'm afraid at some point( and I believe that point is rapidly approaching) pope Francis's new broom will be seen to be the old one painted to look fresh.
In Uganda the archbishop agrees with the government that gay people should be killed. I guess he missed Francis' "Who am I to judge" speech. So Francis says one thing and lets the deadly oppisite rule in the Bishop's palace in Uganda. Your hypocricy will be your down fall.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6Mdjf8Q2Hw
Ugandan Catholic Archbishop condemns "kill gays' bill, on camera (aka evidence, something with which the antiCatholic haters are unfamiliar)-
Your link is 5+ years old.
So what, is there a SOL on links or videos?
Your claims against your alleged perp was decades old (how many, fifty?), you set the precedent, live with it-
In regard to the ‘Daniel Cassidy’ comment (the 29th at 11PM):
First, there is a conceptual coherence problem: if the closed-schools (whatever their actual number might be and I don’t know that number) are theoretically havens for child-abusing clerics, then how does that square with the Archbishop closing them? Would that not be a form of child-protection, according to this theorization of Mr. Cassidy’s?
But second, the problems facing the Church are not primarily “pastoral” in origin and thus “pastoral” efforts alone are not going to solve them: there is a general decline in vocations that has been going on since Vatican2 (thus before the Catholic Abuse Matter arose as a public issue) and it costs a very great deal of money to maintain staffing with lay employees for work that had been performed by Sisters and religious Order priests and Brothers.
And third, there has been a concomitant falling-off in Church attendance (and contributions) since Vatican 2 (ditto before the Catholic Abuse Matter).
As to whether it has been clearly established that the Archbishop “in both Peoria and Newark” has “throughout his career” actually “covered-up criminal activity and attempted to reinstate to priestly ministry acknowledged sexual predators” I seem to recall a great deal of controversy as to the accuracy of that characterization in the few incidents that I have seen in the news.
I would be interested in knowing more about “new management models” instituted in various Dioceses. If one is going to have a Catholic school and employ lay personnel as the majority-staffing source, then any management model that can actually resolve the fiscal problem thus created would be a very impressive model indeed.
As to whether Archbishop Myers “believes that it is he who should be served, not the families entrusted to him” – I don’t know the man personally and haven’t got access to his personal beliefs on that score. Might Mr. Cassidy proffer some further corroboration of his characterization here? Ditto the “rapacious” bit, which is clearly either a) hyperbole or b) indicates that Mr. Cassidy has access to a great deal of solid information that others don’t have or cannot see.
In regard to the James Ensor painting Christ’s Entry Into Brussels in 1889: it was painted in 1888, not “in the early 1900s”. Its relevance to anything on this site has yet to be clearly explained by whomever thinks it is relevant to anything on this site.
As for the comment of the 29th at 823PM: The “problem” is that there is no evidence as to the claims and stories. And yet there is more than a little evidence that as a ‘problem-commenter’ JR has clearly demonstrated numerous qualifications for that status.
And yet again we see the consistent tendency (whether through inadvertence or design) to personalize all issues where no other standard Playbook scams have worked (and all the better to claim victimhood of being ‘personally’ dissed or attacked or thing-ified or fill-in-the-blank).
As to whether JR was “extremely religious” or not, readers may file that story-bit with all of the rest of the story-bits and consider it as they may.
Then on the 29th at 835PM, we are lectured on both Jesus and Paul. Apparently Paul – in the Cartoon version – “never met Jesus” but instead “only saw [Jesus] in a dream”. Just how that would work out is not explained, but since “the dream” presumably came from Christ then of what relevance is the difference in how Paul came to experience Christ?
I don’t see much value in trying to “show” JR anything, since blocks he doesn’t want to play with simply get knocked off his play-table.
But to compare himself to Voltaire … seriously? Voltaire was not a “garden variety” atheist – and by his own words was not even an atheist; he simply opposed organized religion, especially the Catholic version. But whatever he was, he was not “garden-variety”; which is precisely where he and JR differ so fundamentally. But since JR has now appointed himself as a new Voltaire, it might be interesting to imagine the Wig.
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The dream came from Paul. It was in his mind. You've no proof for any of your delusions. You live on Fantasy Island. You're like Herve Villachez. Only you point to the sky and say the god boss, the god.
Did Paul ever say he met Jesus? He gained all his conversion from a vision on the road to Damascus period. That's the story. I didn't make it up.
Back to not reading P and D anymore. Your church is losing the war dears. Because when you're wrong you're wrong. You will never recover from the defeat you've brought upon yourselves. You are the ones killing your church. Not the people who tell you the truth. Is there a word for the killing of religions? You know like patracide or fratracide? Fathracide perhaps?
[edited by moderator] Keep up the good "Jesus like work". If he were alive he'd hammer a stake through it's heart. Or drown it in one of the not so good bishop's swimming pools.
I was 10 years off. And? So [edited by moderator] what. [edited by moderator]
Voltaire whouldn't mind a raped Catholic comparing himself to him. He was the ultimate humanist. He related to all but mock pious men like yourself. You he'd have found tragically funny. You are like Dr Pangloss, a teacher who knows nothing.
P, you claim your church to be the best of all possible churches. No matter the scams they perpetrate, Lourdes; Mejagori, (I know I'm spelling things wrong and I don't give a shit either) Every child they rape is nothing to you. Your church can do no wrong.
D ;Josie; P the usual cast, spouting the usual crap like some "faith "filled parrots: " Good church! Good church! Bad lying victim's! bad gays! bad socialists! No bad priests! No real victims! caw! caw! caw!
Birdy want num num?
In regard to the comment of the 1st at 946AM: Just how are we supposed to credit JR’s assertion that “the dream came from Paul”? Are we to imagine that JR has some inside-track and personal-knowledge that the dream was merely a phantasm of Paul’s rather than a vision sent by God? Has God revealed this to JR in some personal revelation? Has Paul?
Or is the question – in JR’s theorizing of the matter – moot since – in JR’s theorizing of the matter – there is no God (or post-Resurrection Jesus?) Who could have sent the vision … ?
Then the now-typical bit from B-grade TV with the Fantasy Island gambit and Hervé Villechaize [correction supplied].
Paul said he had a vision of Christ and encountered Him, which became the basis of a personal relationship. Is that really more fantastical than some of the material that has been proffered to us here about various aspects of the Catholic Abuse Matter?
We are then informed that JR has decided – much like ‘Dennis Ecker’ – that while he is very much committed to “dialog” yet he won’t (yet again) be “reading P and D anymore”. I was under the clear impression that he had made that assertion quite a while ago. And – really – to what extent does his material indicate that he has actually read what I write at all in the first place anyway?
Then ominous tea-leaves predictions about the baaaad things that will happen to those who disagree with him. (No, “I didn’t make it up” – it’s written in his comment for all to see.)
Then some word-play about “the killing of religions”; I would recommend refraining from playing with words until one has actually developed a competence in using them properly.
Then JR channels Jesus as to what He would do if He were alive.
And ends up with a neat rhetorical tie-in with swimming pools.
It is what it is.
Then (the 1st, 951AM) JR pooh-poohs his inaccuracy on dates. And one wonders if this infelicitous and dismissive inattention to factual accuracy had any impact on other assertions and claims made in other times and places.
Then (the 1st, 1011AM) JR’s inaccuracy in characterizing Voltaire as an atheist is slyly side-stepped and ignored by – in classic Playbook style – the attempt to distract one and all by quickly waving the rape-shirt with the assertion that “Voltaire wouldn’t mind a raped Catholic comparing himself to him”. And JR knows that this is what Voltaire would think … how? The same way he knows Paul did not have a vision or the same way he knows what Jesus would think or say or do in some specific situation? That must be one powerful tin-foil hat under the Philosopher’s Wig indeed.
Then – more classic Playbook – the introduction of material I didn’t write as if I had written it. Where did I ever “claim” my “church to be the best of all possible churches”? Is there a quotation to support that assertion? And the rest of the ketchup-stained assertions in that paragraph.
And then the whole thing trails off – in JR’s particular spin on Playbook distractions – with a weirdly-pitched riff on birds. Perhaps observed from a sun-porch somewhere.
Still trotting out the old "sun porch" and the "ketchup" and "tin foil hat and wig" crap. So damn boring! Can't you come up with better insults than that? For a guy that imagines an entire afterlife and a heavenly hierarchy, you have no imagination. You're not very creative.
How do I know that Pauls dream wasn't from god?
Well, there is no god for one; and for two, the human brain has been known to create visions all by itself. Think of schizophrenia. Schizophrenics see people who aren't there all the time. They like Paul are tortured and sometimes elated by their imaginary companions. The dark ages, intellectually, are over. Everywhere but here at TMR; it seems.
Did the human leftist mind 'create visions" when it dreamed up all those fantastic stories about evil Catholic clergymen (or imagined itself to be a soulmate to Voltaire)?
I wonder what dreams "bill bannon", "Tim" and "Daniel Cassidy" are creating to keep their delusional visions going?
The "Dark Ages" were anything but 'dark' for the Catholic Church.
If not for the Church, we'd know next to nothing about how the world fared during that age and have nothing close to civilzation, then or now.
You're Welcome.
You are "b grade t.v".
Ever try and watch EWTN? The catholic channel? Now that's some D grade t.v. Sheesh! Talk about boring! Mother Angelica is so creepy. She died right? Or she had a stroke. That's sad I'm sorry, sincerely. She's a piece of old time catholic work. They don't make them like her anymore. The cockyness, the superior judgemental attitudes. the condesention; the anger. Fabulous! (Well we still have Delphin)
If she's still on terra firma; I wish her nothing but well.