Dear media: Cardinal Donald Wuerl (l) is telling the truth, Pennsylvania AG Josh Shapiro (r) is not.
This is Part I of a special TheMediaReport.com analysis of the Pennsylvania grand jury report.
Click here for Part II.
A priest washed out the mouth of a young sex assault victim with holy water? Another priest sodomized a boy with a crucifix? Another priest assaulted another kid multiple times on an airplane? 300 "predator priests"? The Church "did nothing"?
Are these sickening stories all true? No, they're not, and we will show you explicitly in this special, two-part report.
Where does one begin to get at the truth of the recently released Pennsylvania grand jury report that has wrought breathless headlines across the globe? Here are two essential starting points:
1. The most important point to know is that a "grand jury report" is not really written by any jury members. As any lawyer will tell you, the report is actually written by government attorneys with a predetermined outcome. The folks in the "jury" are merely a formality, window dressing to make the matter legal. Jurors sit in a room eating hoagies and reading the newspaper while "listening" to the proceedings. There is no fact-checking, no cross-examinations, and no due process. Those cited in the report have almost no recourse to defend themselves. Accusations are assessed less on evidence and more on the desire for them to be true.
When the time comes, a jury member simply slaps his signature on the finished attorneys' report to make everything official. Press conferences ensue, and hysteria follows. [Highly recommended: "If it's not a runaway, it's not a real grand jury" by Roger Roots.]
In theory, a grand jury is supposed examine evidence to determine whether a crime took place and should be prosecuted. This was clearly not the intention of Pennsylvania Attorney General Josh Shapiro. In an 800+-page screed, Shapiro's report (and yes, it's really Shapiro's report, not a "grand jury report") does not recommend a single criminal charge, because almost all of the accusations are many decades old. The fact that countless tax dollars and unlimited government resources were expended on this escapade – while giving far-more-recent abuse in public schools, the Boy Scouts, and other organizations a complete pass – should raise serious questions about Shapiro's true motives.
2. Countless headlines have trumpeted that the report identified over 300 "predator priests." In truth, that is the number of those merely accused; and the listed men are not just priests but include lay people, deacons, and seminarians. Many, if not the majority, of the priests in the report are long dead and no longer around to defend themselves. This caper examined allegations dating back to the 1930s, some eight decades ago. (One of the priests named in the report was born in 1869, four years after the end of the Civil War, when the USA consisted of only 37 states, and a decade before Thomas Edison invented the light bulb.) Several men in the report vehemently deny the accusations against them, and some claims in the report are outright false. (Much more on this in Part II.) [HT: Catholic League.]
Unpacking a Shapiro whopper
Countless news stories have faithfully regurgitated one berserk line in particular from the report, a line which Shapiro clearly tailored for the media to seize upon:
"Priests were raping little boys and girls and the men of God who were responsible for them not only did nothing: they hid it all."
There is no other way to put it except to say that this is a flat-out lie by Shapiro. Even a cursory look at the report debunks this absurd claim.
Take the case in the report of Rev. Joseph Mueller: In 1986, a man went to the Diocese of Pittsburgh to claim that Mueller abused him years earlier as a teenager. Then-Bishop Donald Wuerl immediately removed him from ministry and shipped him off to St. Luke's treatment facility. Based on its evaluation of the guy, St. Luke's advised that Mueller "not work with children or adolescents." A diocesan memo also declared Mueller "unassignable." So what did Wuerl do? He stripped Mueller of his faculties, and the dude never worked as a priest again. Sayonara.
That, dear readers, is not "doing nothing," as Shapiro claims, and he knows it.
In fact, if one takes the time to actually read the report, one will see that the first action by a diocese, even many decades ago, was almost always to immediately remove the accused priest from his assignment. In a bunch of cases, priestly faculties were stripped. Therapy was often provided to victims.
Josh Shapiro's claim that the Church showed "complete disdain" for victims is nothing but an ugly smear. "I met with every victim. Anyone that would come forward, I met with them and I'd have to say more than once shared a tear with them as they or their parents told the story," Cardinal Wuerl has told.
Sent off to treatment?
There are those who will want to castigate the Church for sending priests off to treatment, but, as regular readers of this site already know, that was exactly what so-called psychological experts advised bishops to do in a 1985 report. And even the Boston Globe (yes, the Boston Globe!) was trumpeting therapy treatment for child sex offenders as recently as 1992.
"From the 1950's to the 1980's, these treatment-based interventions for sexual criminals were not only enormously prevalent in the United States, but surveys of ordinary citizens showed that they were enormously popular …
"[T]he science of human sexuality and sexual offending is extraordinarily young. Virtually all of the information we utilize today regarding the treatment and supervision of sexual offenders has been discovered since 1985."
– Dr. Monica Applewhite, Ph.D.
Yet in almost every media account, the media has failed to provide this important historical context that the Church was following the then-reigning advice of experts in the field to send accused priests to treatment.
"No one would hold a brain surgeon to today's standard of care for professional decisions he made in 1970. Yet the decisions made in 1970 by Catholic bishops, who routinely consulted with mental health professionals about sick priests, are being judged by today's standards. Today, the confidence of the mental health community about the likelihood of curing sexual disorders is far less than it was in 1970."
– L. Martin Nussbaum, "Changing the Rules" (America magazine, 2006)
Just plain wrong reporting
It would be no surprise to regular readers of this site that the media's reporting on the Pennsylvania report has been atrocious, not only just lacking context and uncritically repeating the claims of the report, but also getting important facts flat-out wrong.
Unfortunately, even reputable Christian writers have been irresponsible in their reporting. Our favorite Methodist-turned-Catholic-turned-Eastern-Orthodox blogger Rod Dreher claimed in a wild-eyed post about the report:
"[I]n 1991, Bishop Wuerl approved pedophile Pittsburgh priest Father [Ernest C.] Paone's assignment in the Diocese of Reno-Las Vegas. That priest continued to work there — without Pittsburgh telling them that they knew he was a pedophile — until the Boston scandal broke in 2002."
In truth, when then-Bishop Wuerl wrote his 1991 letter, he was completely unaware of any accusations against Paone. It was not until 1994, three years later, that a woman approached the Diocese of Pittsburgh to claim that her brother had been molested by Paone some three decades earlier. Upon receiving this news, Wuerl immediately fired off a letter (pdf) to the Diocese of Reno-Las Vegas in which he wrote:
"Very recently, an allegation was made by a woman who claims that more than 30 years ago her brother was molested by Father Paone …
"Had I been aware of this allegation in Father Paone's past, I would not have supported his request for a priestly assignment in your diocese. Nor would I have written to you indicating that he was a priest in good standing."
In other words, Dreher completely misinformed his audience. As soon as Wuerl had information on Paone's past, he immediately spread the word. He also urgently recalled Paone back to Pittsburgh to address the claims against him and send him off to St. Luke's.
Moving on
So what do we make of the alarming stories in Shapiro's report that have been blared loudly in the media about a priest washing out the mouth of a child after a sexual assault? What about the other one claiming a priest sodomized a boy with a crucifix?
Let's go to PART II of our exclusive analysis (click here).
Media report has nailed it-these stories are far too obscene and digusting to have been intelligently researched by any State Attorney General's office. They are fabricated, if not all/most of them, which has been the case whenever these bogus numbers of cases are brought out.
I wrote to Shapiro and reminded him that -according to Penn state stats on child abuse for some years running- about 19,000 plus cases of substantiated child abuse claims have been documented in the last few years alone-this doesnt cover the deaths of children from this abuse.
What has he done about this? ZERO!
Has he called out those predators, that are well documented-NO!
The CHurch needs to have its day in court-that way the real victims and criminals can be truly brought to justice, as I hope the phony victims will be also.
Thanks MR!
G Sudano
Maybe only someone who has been falsely accused and wrongfully convicked can fully comprehend the tyranny of using the guilt of someone else as evidence against oneself.
What the PA Attorney General has done is an unconstitutional abuse of the Grand Jury system. The Grand Jury is convened for the purpose of formulating charges for criminal prosecution. We have to read the small prints to see that the Grand Jury concludes that none of the accused can be charged due to the statute of limitations. It should have ended there. Instead, these government agents in Pennsylvania are using the Grand Jury to try a case in the press that they can not try in a court of law. They allow no defense, no cross examination, no witness except those who support the prosecution, and no due process for the accused many who are dead, while those living have been denied any opportunity to testify. This is not how the American Justice system works in the 21st century. It is how it worked in 1692 in Salem Massachusetts. We can bluster all day about eliminating the statute of limitations but the Supreme Court has ruled that revised criminal statutes cannot be applied retroactively. This PA PR stunt is shameful, one-sided, and illegal.
I took plea deals several times due to the false accusations from catholic priests. I didn't trust the liars to add to their false accusations in court. If you're right and you are innocent as you claim, maybe you and the few other supposedly innocent priests just had to pay the price for all the thousands of disgusting pedophile and perverted priests and bishops that escaped any punishment at all. I must say I doubt your innocence just like the creeps in this forum doubted mine. If you are truly innocent, God will reward your suffering as He will reward mine. I find it hard to trust catholics who are always claiming witch-hunts or calling others bigots, when they're some of the most evil lying hypocrites to walk the planet.
The article doesn't mention the canonical irregularities involved in "immediately" removing a priest is accused of some sexual wrongdoing. The bishop would be required to make a preliminary investigation in order to establish whether the allegation has any real basis. No professional, such as a doctor or a psychologist is so removed. Many innocent priests have been removed from their parishes within 24 hours due to this unjust and canonical procedure. They call it "administrative leave", but the parishioners are told that there is some accusation against their priest. He may not even have been told what the allegation is, who made it. As for it being "credible", it is sufficient that the priest has been in the place where the abuse was said to have taken place. Later on, the bishop may defame the priest by placing his name on a list of "credible cases" or else a hate group like SNAP or Bishop Accountability will publish his name as a "credible" abuser. No due process, no presumption of innocence. After the so-called "zero tolerance" policy (one size fits all) adopted by the bishops in 2002, the bishop is likely to include a large number of such "credibly accused" priests in some settlement and dish out millions of dollars to supposed victims with zero investigation, no chance for the priest defend himself or face the accuser or even know what his name is.. The purpose of this is to quickly get the scandal off the newspapers, with no concern for truth or justice. The next step is that the bishop sends the case to Rome, asking for the laicization of the priest. The priest may not even know what is being done against him as Rome will assume that due process has been followed. He has a right to a canonical advocate, obviously not one in the employment o the bishop. The bishop should pay for this, but he seldom does. He may not even know that. Thank God for Opus Bono Sacerdotii http://www.opusbono.org which does such extraordinary work in helping and defending such beleaguered priests.
Fr. McRae knows all about this, as he has gone through it.
We have well-meaning Catholics such as those who read the Church Militant website calling for Grand Juries such as the PA one in all 50 States!!!. I was accused of being a "queer" predator priest for stating some of these facts in comments in that website. There are others also. They are mad at the bishops and rightly so, no amount of outrage on their part is going to do any good and it may do much eviler. The Pope is the only one who can rein in Bishops, but for justice to be served, what we need is not another witch hunt, but truth and justice, which involves the fundamental right to due process. Cardinal Pell is facing a kangaroo court in Australia and another elderly and sick bishop Philip Wilson was condemned by another kangaroo court to one year in prison because he is accused of covering up a case some 43 years ago or more when he was a young priest of 25, Associate at a parish in which the Pastor was condemned for sexual abuse of two minors. He denied it and stated that if he had been told about it, he would have reported it to the Chancery. The judge stated that he showed no repentance. It is his word against theirs, and he how could he show repentance when he denies that the thing ever happened as if repentance had anything to do with a civil court case? Similarly, in Chile, Cardinal Ezaatti of the capital Santiago is being investigated on extremely flimsy evidence for supposedly covering up sexual abuse. Once accused, just like Cardinal Law, they are being pilloried, ad it is taken for granted that they are guilty.. Of course, they are not being treated as badly as priests as they have not been kicked out of their residences within 24 hours. Two priest friends in Peru were suspended within 5 hours of the allegation reaching the Chancery. They had no canonical advocate nor civil lawyer as such things are a luxury in poor countries. They were eventually exonerated after 2 years of suspension with no income. I was told by a priest who just got his degree in Canon Law, and was a student of mine in the seminary, that the Professors are very upset about the latest norm from the CDF on so-called "graver cases", leaning against the 6th commandant and that they place the priest in a state of in defense. He also told me that a Canonist from the Roman Rota gave them a talk and was in agreement regarding the injustice of such norms. One wonders why he doesn't speak up in Rome and try to get them corrected. He also said that the Professors recommend, that is in Spain, that a falsely accused priest sue the fake victim for damages.fue to calumny and defamation. I would sue even if the lawyer were to get the eventual compensation for his fees. I don't know if that would work in America. This is a case which took place here in Spain. A guy wrote a letter to Pope Francis claiming that he was abused by 9 priests. PF called him on the phone and asked him for forgiveness. The Archbishop organized a ceremony in the Cathedral and prostrated himself there before the altar. There was o proof. Of course, he also suspended them. After interrogation by the Police, 8 of them were rejected no case. One was taken to court. He won the case and the judge ordered the fake victim to pay the court costs and 60,000 euros compensation. .
Attorney General Josh Shapiro obviously has a motive, for all this expenditure of public money and resources. But what is his real motivation. People are expected to think it is all about protecting children.. But as Dave Pierre has pointed out….no charges can be laid…. and Shapiro knew that from the start. So any predators (real or imagined) can't be sent to prison. Also what is the point of warning the public, if the priest is dead or out of ministry? So who benefits from all this? Well…mainly Shapiro…in my opinion. He knows he has to get re-elected. Which requires popularity….. and campaign funds. This media blitz will create a perception of widespread guilt within the Church. It will taint any jury pool, and help to ensure winning lawsuits…. against the Church. The contingency lawyers will reap rich rewards. And maybe, out of a sense of gratitude, will donate generously to those aforementioned campaign funds.
Strange how members of "the Church" always seem more worried about the cults finances than they are concerned about the lives of victims they have totally destroyed. Then we'll hear some empty words about how much they care about the lives they've ruined, followed by denials and excuses for the disgusting hierarchy of the church. Shame on you.
You guys just still don't get it? This is one state out of 50. Circle the wagons. Now let's attack the DA. Let's make victims out to be liars. We'll deny, deceive, coverup, hide or destroy files and claim confidentiality agreements were for the victims sake. Are you kidding? Business still as usual, coming from sexually deviant liars. When will this STOP and the church comes clean?
"14 Then we will no longer be infants … blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of people in their deceitful scheming. 18 They are darkened in their understanding and separated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardening of their hearts. 19 Having lost all sensitivity, they have given themselves over to sensuality so as to indulge in every kind of impurity, and they are full of greed." Eph. 4:14-19
"But among you there must not even be a hint of sexual immorality, or any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people. Eph. 5:3
Catholics, Your church hierarchy is a total failure according to these few biblical quotes.
"Live as children of light, for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth and find out what pleases the Lord. Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. It is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret. But everything exposed by light becomes visible." Eph. 5:8-13
Catholics, The dark piercing light of the Almighty is exposing all of your Churches secrets.
"There is nothing hidden that won't be revealed, and there is nothing secret that won't become known and come to light." Luke 8:17
"Though malice disguises ityself with deception, its evil will be exposed publicly." Prov. 26:26
"The Church" may think it can secretly conceal its filth from its followers, denying and deceiving, but its disgusting perversions shall never escape the armor piercing eyes of the Almighty God. "Indeed, the very hairs of your head are all numbered." Luke 12:7 No one will escape His Judgments and NO Statute of Limitations will free you from your guilt.
And will you please stop pointing your fingers at other organizations as if that helps justify all of your pedophilia, perversions and lying secrecies. Clean up your own house before God purifies it with fire. "Take the board from your own eye before removing the splinter from another." Do Catholics even believe or really understand the Lord's Word? Apparently not!
Quit it, troll. Who is paying you for this?
What's the problem Juan? You've been brainwashed by the churches lies and deceit for so long that hearing the truth is offensive to you? Why is it that catholics think there's a monetary ($) value for just about everything? You've raped hordes of innocent children and complain that since you've paid out billions, then everyone should be satisfied and leave the child molesting Church alone. I actually enjoy telling the truth and don't need any pay. If you have any more insults or questions, I will gladly respond to them free of charge. I wouldn't want to take money that your Church thinks is better spent protecting and concealing it's pedophiles and perverts. servant of Truth, who can't and won't be bought at any price.
Guy Sudano, on the 19th, said that "the Church needs to have it's day in court…that way the real victims and criminals can be brought to justice…as I hope the phony victims will be too." Well I think he is right….this has to be contested… all the way to the highest court. The public perception will be got from the media headlines, but it is a false perception. There is an important distinction between an accusation and a proven fact. This was perfectly illustrated in the United Kingdom, just two years ago. An individual man accused a deceased Prime Minister.The alleged victim was joined by 39 other accusers, making 40 in all, they said the former P.M. Edward Heath sexually abused them. Because of the gravity of the scandal the Wiltshire Police were ordered to investigate each accusation. The result was that 33 accusations were found not to be credible. The remaining 7 were assessed as justifying an interview with the accused man. (had he still been alive). But these 7 remaining 'credible claims' did not stand up to investigative scrutiny… either. Edward Heath was a batchelor, as are our priests, and a natural target for character assassins. So this Pennsylvania Grand Jury report of "300 predatory priests" is about "accusations"… not about proven facts. Incidentally yet another batchelor in the U.K., the entertainer Cliff Richards, took both the police and the media to court and won. The court awarding him large sums of money….both against the police and the media….. way to go.
For someone who claims to be a Christian, Dan sure seems to have a chip on his shoulder.
When dealing with hardened hearts, stubborn or brainwashed people who refuse to see the writing on the wall, what am I supposed to do. Would you like to be coddled and told everything is fine, like the idol worshipers of the "Queen of Heaven" in Jeremiah 44 thought. Everything is not fine. Your church is a sesspool of filth and God is exposing what is truly going on in secret. Have you even read or paid attention to the Bible quotes I gave you on August 20 (Ephesians 5:3 and 5:8-13). There shouldn't "even be a hint of sexual immorality, or any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people." Am I speaking and quoting a foreign language to Catholics? Would you like me to tell you all is well, remain as you are and do as you please because God loves you? If that is what you want to hear, then I might as well just tell you to go to hell, because essentially that is what I would be doing. I'm questioning why I'm even trying to help a lost church of followers who don't really want to hear or know the truth. They apparently would rather believe the lies of their leaders, both regarding spiritual and moral issues. Heaven help you all.
Bishops do NOT have the right to pass the buck to psychologists who OK'ed sexually abusive priests to be placed back into ministry after "treatment." The bishops made the decisions and they are resonsible for taking foolish advice. Bishops are managers…and they made bad decisions. Managers who make bad decisions get fired. I don't care who told them the pervert priests were cured. Suckers should not be managers or bishops!
"Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you." Matthew 5:11
Thank You, Catholics for all your blessings.
Oh, and thanks for the Matthew quotation. Here's one back at ya:
"Get thee behind Me, Satan…thou art an offense unto me…" Matt 16:23
Dan, see my response to you below. BTW, no abuse is acceptable, even those from your religious persuasion.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vice.com/amp/en_us/article/xwwd3w/billy-grahams-grandson-says-protestants-abuse-kids-just-like-catholics
BTW, Jeanette, I can't agree with you more, no abuse is acceptable, especially sexual abuse of innocent children. So tell me why your bishops were acceptable of pedophilia and pederasty among your priests and thought it was OK to ship them to other unknowing parishes when they were known to be repeat offenders.
BTW, I am not a protestant, though I protest the unbiblical teachings of your church and the disgusting sexual crimes of your perverted clergy. I belong to none of the worlds false religions and do not agree with their false teachings or child abuse. I would never allow child molesters in my Christian circle. He/she would be removed from the group and handed over to Satan as the Bible instructs. Read 1 Cor 5:1-5. If God was so angry with this form of sexual immorality, just think how he feels about the sexual abuse of children, sometimes even babies. The abuse in your church is disgusting and the way it was handled shows a systemic MO of unrepentance and total lack of guilt or conscience.
You might want to read my comment above and put a stop to pointing your guilty fingers at others, until "the Church" cleans up their filthy act.. August 20, 2018 @ 1:52am
"…like the idol worshipers of the "Queen of Heaven" in Jeremiah 44 thought…."
Oh wow…a foaming-mouth fundie, hoist on his own a-theological petard. Y'all get back to yer big tent, now, y'hear, Rufus? I heard the good parster there is displaying zoo animals this week to pump up the crowds.
Well — back atcha there cowboy! Thought we'd bow down and worship the Queen Mary this week, but we opted for that famous zoo animal, the wolf in sheep's clothing. Y'all wouldn't happen to know if the pope is available? We'll even have some little boys he can prey upon. Oh! Did I write prey upon? I was a-meaning pray upon. You know, maybe he could babble on a few dozen prayers to his ever-virginious, ass-umed into heaven, Ishtar. Maybe he can bring along that sundial obelisk they worship in front of their famous Roman Temple, St. Peters. Thanx again for your blessings there, Dufus.
In response to Fr. Hennigan mentoning Cardinal Law I would invite him to Google Dan Drinan. NOT the communist congressman but the former Claretian priest by that name. In 1978-79 Fr. Dan Drinan was my spiritual advisor. He was kicked out of ministry by then Bishop Sullivan of the Diocease of Baton Rouge. (A side note: During the 80's Bishop Sullivan was very credibly accused and proven to have had a regular ongoing homosexual relationship with a former seminarian which officially travelled with him extensively and provided regular sex. A Baton Roge Catholic school named for Bishop Sullivan had to have his name removed.) Back to Fr. Drinan, he was "taken in" by then Bishop Law in the Diocease of Springfield Cape Girardeau. For a time Dan Drinan lived with Bishop Law in his residence. After some time Drinan showed up in Guatamala for a number of years but was removed under a cloud of inappropriate contact with minors. Further Googling of Dinan's name reveals that he was removed from minisrty by then Bishop of Austin Gregory Aymond for inappropriate contact with minors. Fast forward to 2012 and this is a quote from Westword; Former Catholic priest Daniel Drinan made headlines after being charged by the U.S. Attorney's Office in Denver for masturbating in view of other passengers on a plane — and they weren't his first.
Given the very questionable behavior of Dan Drinan in the 1970's at LSU Christ The King chapel, the Cardinal Law abuse/scandal cover up, and Dan Drinan exemplary and known sexual tendencies I find it very difficult to have the sympathy you suggest for Cardinal Law.
One thing is for sure, there are many priests who have been ruined and/or laicized with no proof or due process and there are many who have escaped any punishment even with proof and were moved around and allowed to perpetrate again and again. In any case the chickens have come home to roost with the Bishops/Cardinals and the Lavender Mafia they answer to in the American and Vatican hierarchies. The devil is having a field day!
Patrick, your information on Dan Drinan is very interesting. As a college student in the 80s, I knew Dan Drinan when he was the pastor/director of Catholic Campus Ministry at Missouri State University (then Southwest Missouri State University) in Springfield, Mo around the time period of 1984-1987. I was a very involved as a member of the student parish council and spent a lot of time in groups and also a few times individually meeting with Father Dan. I last saw him in 1989 when I met up with him in Kansas City to introduce him to my fiance who was from Boston. I remember Dan commenting that he was good friends with Cardinal Law who had just become archbishop of Boston. Everyone on campus (even non-Catholics) knew and liked Father Dan and he was very visible around campus and even at fraternity happy hours. He was very kind and concerned about individual students. At that time, I never heard anything odd about him, however, during that time period, we were neither aware or on alert about strange behavior by priests. If I could go back in time, there may have been clues about his behavior. It's very sad that someone who was so enthusiastic and attracted so many college students to the campus Mass turned out to be just another perverted member of the clergy. I am sick about these new bombshell revelations in the Church and so dislliusioned by the entire arrogance of the Church in not making changes to allow priests to marry or for women to enter the ministry.. On a personal level, it is heartbreaking that some of the priests who have been very instrumental in my life have proven not to be the Holy men I though they were – not only did Dan Drinan's turn out to be a fraud but also the priest who married my husband and I died of AID at the age of 32 in the 90s. I would be very interested to know if you know of anything about Dan Drinan during his time at Southwest Missouri State Catholic Campus Ministry in the 90s? Everything I've read about him makes absolutely no mention of his time there.
Dan, get off your high horse and read this article:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vice.com/amp/en_us/article/xwwd3w/billy-grahams-grandson-says-protestants-abuse-kids-just-like-catholics
I don't disagree that protestants abuse kids just like catholics. If you look at the photo in the article you suggested, it shows they're big idolators just like your church. Read Romans 1:18-32 and you'll understand how idolatry leads the foolish, those "who suppress the truth", into all kinds of sexual immorality and perversions. I also will go further into stating that I believe all the religions of this world have their share of idolators, greedy, sexually immoral, unbelieving, cowards and lying leaders and that is why I am no part of any of them. I believe all the deceiving hypocrites are going to join together on that Great Day of the Lord's justice and be thrown into the Lake of Fire, for all eternity. Read the Bible and get the heck away from HER, while you have the chance. Revelations 18:4-5
I wasn't aware that teaching the truth to the spiritually lost puts me on a 'high horse'. Actually I can't ride even low horses, because I was born with arthritis and horse riding just doesn't work for me. I do get pretty high though rollerblading or snow skiing, especially when doing jumps. I especially enjoy mowing down catholics that might try to get in my way. Of course; that means by using "the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God". Ephesians 6:17 servant of Christ
So, you have a corner on all truth, huh. You conveniently say you have only committed to your own spirituality. I’d say that puts you on a higher than high horse
Where did I state I have the "corner on all truth, HUH"? or that I'm "committed to [my] own spirituality" HUH? I follow the one and only God inspired Holy Bible and the teachings of His Son Jesus Christ, not my own spirituality. If you think I sit on a "higher than high horse", it may be from your vantage point of sitting on the dead horse of Catholicism.
InCatholic school & high school we were taught about a SRTICT MORAL CODE almost impossible to live by.
We NEVER expected even NON PRACTICING homosexuals or lesbians to even be inn a Catholic Church
;OUR MORAL CODE STICLY FORBID[as in mortal sin]even heterosexual hot petting!
I agree the grand jury went too far for whatever reason.THE CHURCH IS COMPLICATE in the amazing decline of moral vallues WORLD WIDE. welcome to the world HUGH HEFNER!
delighted the lid is being lifted on a filthy can of worms
our church will prevail as this horrendous satanic plot
has finally been uncovered… good men will soon be inspired
to seek ordination without the fear of molestation by superiors and
colleagues when homosexuals are banned from seminaries… it's the only safe solution
Homosexuals And lesbians MUST BE BANNED FROM ALL CATHOLIC PARTICIPATION!
They r mentally challenged & must seek appropriate treatment
How can you believe that your church that you yourself describe as a "filthy can of worms" will ever "prevail". Just because your cult has survived other "horrendous" periods in its history, this disgusting deviance, straight from the pits of hell, should have never ever existed in a church claiming to be God's One True Church. It's all over for the Catholic Church. Even if you started banning homosexual pedophiles and pederasts from your seminaries, you still would have seventy years worth of perverted seminarians, superiors and colleagues that have already infiltrated the system. Sorry, but even hydrochloric acid couldn't clean the filthy scum of your church. The writing is on the wall. Your days are numbered. Escape while you can.
Hi again-We, as Catholics dont have a problem with getting the 'trash' out of our Church.
We also are different from a lot of pepople whose celebrity stars have also abused kids, or abused their spouses/girlfriends,and still get glory, tributes, and honors from their fans.
Thank God we are CATHOLIC!
GS
"
I forgot to mention that clergy abuse actually signifies ALL the religions-Rabbis, imams, and temple priests have committed these crimes.
Abuse of kids and minors is committed by abuse parents/realtives more than anyone else.
This is a world wide scandal and a sign of our oversexed, underloved times.
GS
i agree with all your comments however as Catholics we were raised & educated that we were special & that we could have absolute trust in the CHURCH & the clergy I am too judge mental for the new millennium. I hope that I can find a way to forgive the CHURCH.
Guy, Are you really that blindly naive? This Grand Jury Report, along with all the history of evidence of sexual immorality and the shuffling of child molesting priests and bishops within your church is proof that you do "have a problem with getting the 'trash' out of the Church". And the perpetrators are just like "celebrity stars", getting "glory, tributes and honors" bestowed on them by becoming bishops, cardinals, popes and the ridiculous crown of catholic sainthood. Only God declares who is a saint or chosen. A corrupt cult of pedophiles, perverts and their protectors will never be able to determine who is a saint. They've already picked some bad ones in JP II and Padre Pio, charlatans as bad as their future choice of cardinal RAT-zinger. "The Church" is very skilled though in promoting "wolves in sheep's clothing", like the present pope. Parents should not let him near their children and babies.
These crimes of clergy sexual abuse against innocence should never have taken place in any so-called Godly religion or organization. All of them prove that they are not in any way connected to God or His Son or the chosen. They are all the works of Satan, every one of them. And I think you should be thanking your "Queen of Heaven" that you are Catholic, because God stopped listening to the prayers or thanks of catholic idolators a long time ago. For some reason it just seems to take a long time for catholics to understand that.
"We have a really big shoe (show) tonight." – as Ed sullivan would say. And as God through Jesus says, Though you are in the world, be not of the world. "I have given them Your Word and the world has hated them; for they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world." John 17:14
So I ask you catholics? Why would the stage at your 9th World Meeting of Families be covered with a huge map of the 'world'? This is Ok because other charlatans like Joel Osteen and Joyce Meyers have their big gold globes and Baptist Charles Stanley with his map of the world covering the whole rear wall of his church, all worship the ''world" too. Every false church and peoples rape children, so it's no problem that our clergy does too.
The opening ceremonies for the pope rivaled that of the Olympics. We have River Dance and Andre Bocelli singing Ave Maria, our favorite worship song to Mary, "Queen of Heaven". No coincidence that the stage is all Virgin Mary blue, or acts and singers are all dressed in the colors of the whore who sits on the beast, purple and scarlet. No problem, catholic sheep, you're paying for the big pomp and circumstance show and it sure beats all the money you've paid to silence rape victims and defend the deviant perverts of your cult. (cont.)
DAN-thanks for the note-
I will NEVER defend guilty priests-Get them out, indeed!
Throw the trash OUT!
But dont pound our chests yelling "Mea Culpa ", unitl we have found out the truth of each of these cases.
None of these has been brought to court-know why?
Becasue they want to shock and awe the public about the Church and the clergy-without any public testimony , court proceedings, or having any 'victims' under oath about what happened.
Trust me, if they named the 'victims' in the report, they would never show their faces-many of these folks are looking for the big $, and dont want to be exposed for the lies most of them tell.
Let the true victims and the guilty abusers have justice -but dont crucify all of the clergy, and the Church, without a trial.
Guy Sudano, on the 27th, said we should not crucify all the clergy, and the Church, without a trial. But sadly it is the court of public opinion that is deciding things, at the moment. For example I found myself in a discussion with others about this perceived scandal. Said that had been an altar boy, but had not seen or heard anything to suggest that priests were child molesters. Also added that during my entire life had not heard any rumours to that effect, likewise my wife and her friends, who are from different parishes. For us we all learned of it from the secular media. My point being that it could not therefore be endemic. But a lady in the discussion said her brother personally knew a man who was abused by a priest….and that proved that I was wrong. So I asked her for the name of the man (who was abused), but she said it would not be fair to him. So it seems that the court of public opinion is prepared to believe that the entire priesthood is guilty….almost entirely on accusations from anonymous people.
More ridiculousness lacking any fact to back up what you claim. Card McCarrick is a perfect example of the church not throwing out the trash, or better known as pope RAT-zinger taking out the trash and pope Francis garbage digging and bringing the trash back in. Even promoted to Cardinal. You guys making excuses for your perverts, while the pope and your bishops sure seem to be shakin' in their boots. The church didn't exist in the beginning with Christ and it surely is witnessing the beginning of it's end. Apparently a slow but sure death.
WELLLLLLL!
WE have a celebrity of sorts on our comments columns folks-Mr Cloessy(Spelling?)
CLoessy was-was, that is- the former head of SNAP-
After years of pretending to be a 'victims' support group-maybe in a few cases-He got taken to court to account for exactly what SNAP did -for a great review of this 'crusader' and SNAP,see the Catholic League site-
IN court Cloessy could not account for what exactly SNAP did for 'victims, where SNAP's bank account was, (he's the President?!), and looked like the perfect fool.
SNAP was recently humiliated in court for faslely accsuing priest of abuse in St Louis-
The padre took them to court and WON!
SNAP has encouraged people to falsley accuse priests, for along time-without even checking out their stories .
I'm sure there were a few true ones, but for the most part, SNAP was a disgrace to real victims, making it harder for them to tell their stories.
And now he makes the weird comment that its 'no biggie ' that a priest in prison on a false charge of abuse, died there.
Yoru life is cheaper than most Cloessy and someone's gonna tell on YOU someday.
That innnocent priest is gonna be waiting for you-and yet, he's probably praying for you , right now.
First claims that the Church is 'persecuted' and now it's being 'crucified'. Give us a break! Leaders of your church have brought this shame upon themselves and their organization. Maybe you've missed this or don't pay any attention to the words of Christ -
"Beware of false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit." Matthew 7:15 -17
"Make a tree good and its fruit will be good, or make a tree bad and its fruit will be bad; for a tree is known by its fruit. You breed of vipers, how can you who are evil say anything good?" Matthew 12:33-34
The tree, that is "the Church", is worm eaten and rotten and not capable of producing good fruit. Its false teachings, deceptions and corruptions have destroyed any hope of being considered any kind of beacon or light for the world. It is the 'Church' of darkness, and God is poised to chop it down and throw it into the fire. Read His Word and escape while you can!
P.S. Guy, you are correct in the fact that there's been many "Judas's" in the Church, but I actually think they are worse than Judas and disgusting. Quit covering and making excuses for them.
To "Dan" and all those who are still crying about "victims" and the bad ol' Catholic Church.
STOP accusing me and others of not caring about what happens in our CHurch-we're not like those who continue to idolozed your celebrity heroes who abuse kids or beat up their spouses.
No one likes it better that the Church people when we hear some pervert is put in jail.
In a recent ten year study it was found there were 290,000-(yeah, 290,000)-cases of child and minor abuse that occured at the hands of Public schools employees. That's 29,000 per year.
Where is your concern about this?
What about Coach abuse, Hollywood child predators (read 'Corey-ograhy" by Corey Feldman), or the fact that most abuse cases occur at the hands of abusive parents and family members? What if our homes were scrutinized by the 'authorities" and the media starting casting stones at parents in general?
This is the kind of Facist Liberal Marxist show trial that sent innumerable people to camps and their executions.
The stories told in the abuse report are only the words of alleged victims against priests who have been long dead and cannot defend themeselves. This grand jury report is NOT based on a trial-there have been NO trials yet, so there was no testifying under oath, or a prosecutor or a defense attorney present.
What if the VICTIMS were investigated as their background-its been found that many accusers were dysfunctional people or felons who had a long history of fabricating lies against people(and priests) just to get some kind of payoff.
If anyone REALLY wants to see whos tellling the turth or not-its simple-
PUBLISH THE NAMES OF THE 'VICTIMS'-I guarantee you all that a whole lot of them will disappear like cockroaches when the light goes on-
THEN , we will all know who the true victims are-and who's guilty and who's not-
"The Gates of hell, will NOT prevail against MY CHURCH"-Christ said. So whoever tries to destroy the Church are in for a big day of reckoning and it ain't gonna be pretty.
NOt for those who truly committed these crimes and those who bore 'false witness' against innocent ones.
Are ya listening Dan, all of you,Shapiro? Are you listening NYTimes, Boston Globe (with their own sex scandal brewing), CNN, ABC, CBS, NBC, world media?
Finally, lets really take a look at the bulk of any abuses against children.
Get ready, Dan-
Over 80% of the cases of abuse occur at the hands of HOMOSexual predators-after all, the great majority of these cases are males going after males.
This is the problem of our whole society-we have let the LBGT bunch take over our media, schools, judicial, political, educational, religous and social sytems to promote what they used to call, their 'queer nation"-
And , fo course, the medias are their voice and their biggest supporters-why do you think they hate the Catholic Church, or Chirstianity in general?
Lok around you-its all over.
GS
Sincere thanks to Guy Sudano, on the 28th. He seems to have been reading my mind?. Or is it that he has simplly said very clearly….. what a lot of us have long suspected?.
How very telling that you two can seem to read each others minds. Have you ever heard that "birds of the feather flock together". Guys comment is full of falsehoods, some against me. I hate and am concerned about all child abuse, and feel all should be prosecuted. Again, dead priests don't mean innocent priests. Molested or raped children can become "dysfunctional people" or end up in jail because of the damage done by perverted creeps and child molesters, especially those who use God and their false holiness to groom their targets. YOUR CHURCH is NOT God's church. You could say it's the "Queen of Heaven"s church. God's church IS NOT plagued with perverts and pedophiles. Your "big day of reckoning" is coming and it is God who will be doing the destroying, not me. The media and Shapiro is attacking the church because it's led by religious hypocrites who are some of the filthiest creeps to walk the planet, while claiming to be the "moral authority". I don't accept everything they say, but go by evidence and church documents and form my own opinion. A church that secretly hides their filth and denies their sin adds lies and deception to all the other sins. Clean up your act and show some action and not just words because you're caught, and the media won't have anything to "hate". Repent and change or go to Hell. Ball is in your court.
To "Guy" and "Malcolm" and all those excusers, deniers, liars, deceivers and hierarchy who enabled the perverts and pedophiles of their cult to continue to sexually molest innocents. This is the Word of the Lord for those with the mindset of heathen Bill Donohue of the Catholic League –
"I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people – not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler , drunkard, or swindler – not even to eat with such a one. For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? God judges those outside. 'Purge the evil person from among you.' "
Purge (def.) – an abrupt or violent removal of a group of people from an organization or place.
In other words, if "the Church" was to purge the sexually immoral, greedy, idolaters, revilers, drunkards, swindlers and liars from their hierarchy, then there would no longer be any hierarchy in the Catholic Church. Since you claim that your church is Christian means I have every right to judge what is right and wrong with your church. As the above verse says, I have no right to judge the heathen, those outside "the Church" and God will be their judge.
Conclusion: Stop pointing your fingers at heathen sinners and try cleaning up your own house. God loves the sinner, but he hates the religious sinning hypocrites, especially unrepenting and repeating horrific sins against mostly young boys, worse than homosexuality, by clergy pedophiles and pederasts. Not "males going after other males", but Men abusing little boys. Disgusting and morally sick! Read Matthew 23, Jesus speaking against religious hypocrisy.
Above quote from 1 Corinthians 5:9-13 for any Catholics who actually read the Bible. I run into many Catholics who don't read the Bible and think they'll learn all they need to know about God by hearing the 90% repeated prayers of the Mass or listening to Latin they don't even understand. If they would only realize that they're being taught by idolaters, the greedy, sexually immoral, cowards and lying deceivers, who use God as a front for holiness, they would understand that they're learning close to nothing from those who know little or nothing of what God is really about. Read the Bible and learn the truth about your Church. servant of the All-Knowing God
The comment from Guy Sudano, on the 28th, is something I have re-read. Amongs other things he said "So whoever tries to destroy the Church are in for a big day of reckoning, and it ain't gonna be pretty". Just recently I was in a discussion, in which it got heated, and I may have sounded a bit emotional in defence of the priesthood. Somebody said "I think there's the smell of burning martyr in the room" (meaning me). Only later did I think what I should have said. Because history recalls that Emperor Nero did burn Christians at the stake…..when throwing them to lions became boring. So literally that's the 'smell of burning flesh". But what happened to Nero?. Wasn't he later in real danger of being torn apart by his own people….so he committed suicide. Yeah….the day of reckoning will come, for all the persecutors of the Church. And history has many examples of that.
"For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear." 2 Tim 4:3
Not following or acknowledging Biblical Truth, but listening to the teachings of Church Fathers, philosophers, saints, martyrs and popes. Making up their own rules and doctrine, introducing lies and falsehoods such as calling leaders Father, Mary sinless, Mary assumed into heaven and babbling prayers repeatedly to her honor. And then you wonder why their confused minds went sideways, and in their idol-worship they lost perspective between what was right and wrong, and took a path towards all kinds of greed and sexual immorality, which led them to become great liars to coverup their sins. Surprise, surprise! servant of Christ
Dan, you must have been very hurt by a (some) Catholic(s) judging by your vitriole. Seek the Truh. The truth will set you free. Humans are very complex and only God can understand the workings and reasonings of the mind. Get hold of a Catechism and find out what we truly believe. Keep praying for God's spirit to enlighten you. You don;t know everything. No-one does. Let us pray that the Truth will be exposed, however diifcult it may be to face. Let us pray that there will be healing and cleansing. And that people draw closer to, not further from God as a result of the cleansing fire blasting through and purifying the Church that Jesus Chrsit established with the sinful human creatures he chose as his apostles. . The fact that sin abounds.is terribly regrettable. so it is up to you and I to avoid adding to the cesspool. Yes, call a spade a spade but do it in a loving spirit. Pride goeth before a fall.
"A concerned Christian would like to know why Catholics think they are the ones who have the market cornered when speaking of the truth. Do you not realize that the very men who wrote your Catechism are the same bishops that are now being exposed as liars and deceivers and possibly pedophiles and perverts like the very priests they've been secretly protecting? The Bible is the spiritually inspired Word of God. Do you even understand that God's wisdom is light years above anything that man could write? Although I could always use more of His spirit, I already have a healthy dose of it. My job as a prophet of the Lord is to expose the corruption of false religions, in hopes that I might open the eyes of those who walk in darkness and bring them to know the God of Marvelous Light and the precious gift of His Son. From what I've experienced from Catholics, their false teachings, their holier than thou attitudes, their idolatry, sexual immorality and their slew of liars and lies, I've come to the conclusion that "the Church" is not salvageable. The Holy Bible teaches this in Isaiah 44, Jer 44, Matthew 23 and 24 and finally in Rev 17 and 18. It is a far cry from "the Church that Jesus Christ established" and they have proven this by their fruits (Matthew 7:15-20). It is plagued with bad apples and although they'll try to convince you that its only a few, this is just another of their many lies. If I have any "pride" it is in my Savior that saved my life. My hope is that someday you may come to know His Truth. Hint: Read His Book and don't depend on man's knowledge.
Dan, the Bible, a collection of writings (many books), some historical accounts, some spiritually inspired teachings was put together by spiritually inspired Catholics. Historical fact. It should be read in context. not isolation. God, as you. (if you are a prophet as you say you are), should know, speaks to us in many ways. We can't restrict Him to words printed in the Bible. I, as a practising Catholic read the bible. I also pray ask God to guide and enlighten me. But I also have to use discernment. I am glad that you have a healthy dose of Gods Spirit. You have been truly blessed by God. Unfortunately I am not picking up my evidence of the fruits of the Spirit in your responses here, instead a lot of hatred and anti-Catholic bias. I am not discerning the Holy Spirit in action. As I tried to point out in my first response, in any group of humans we have the good and the bad. I am not claiming that the Catholic Church is perfect – no church is because the members are all human. Show me a perfect Church – yours? Jesus chose Judas to be one of His apostles – did He not know that one day he would betray Him? Yet He chose him. Gods ways are not our ways. I am glad the Saviour saved your life. May He teach you compassion and love.
"The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God. For they are foolishness to him, and he CANNOT understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. The spiritual man judges all things, but he himself is not subject to anyone's judgment…" 1 COR 14-15
I quoted you this because how can I expect a Catholic member of a false belief system to understand any "evidence of the fruits of the spirit in [my] responses" when things of the spirit can only be discerned by those who possess the spirit. You may want to find others that you can judge, like the many perverts and pedophiles of your cult, because I am not subject to any Catholic's false judgments. I'm sorry to disappoint you.
P.S. I have already suffered several incarcerations based on the lies of Catholic liars and their false accusations. You are a member of a very anti-Christian group of compulsive liars and sick sinners that I feel are beyond redemption. I "hate" the false teachings and disgusting perversions of the leaders of your Church. I do not hate lost and confused Catholics. Sorry that you don't care to hear the truth.
Catholics did not write the wisdom of the Bible, nor do they follow or obey much of it, but they might get some credit for assembling the works. I hope they were truthful in regards to that.
I looked into this and found the Jews responsible for much of The Old Testament. Christians responsible for New Testament works and possibly Catholics adding the Apocrypha. I always took for granted you Catholics claiming you assembled the Bible. We might just have to chalk that up to more Catholic fiction.
Also in 2 Esdras 14 the Lord has Ezra and five scribes spend forty days to write the books for future generations. Maybe its time to give credit where credit is most likely due and that would be to God. His Spiritually inspired Word, gathered together by the Almighty, with what little help He needed from man. Sounds just about right according to His Plan, not ours.
And by the way, I shared some Spiritually inspired prophecy in this forum that Catholics only pooh poohed. I'm reluctant to share anymore of the Lord's wisdom with those who have no care to listen or accept His knowledge. At this point it wouldn't be terribly hard for me to "shake the very dust off my feet and move on from this place. Truly I tell you, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for this town. Look, I am sending you out like sheep among wolves; therefore be as wise as serpents and as innocent as doves." Matthew 10:14-16
You say, "We can't restrict Him to words printed in the Bible." You better be damn sure that any words added to His Words actually line up with His Word and not the wisdom of very fallible heathens. "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for evey good work." 2 Tim 3:16-17
It just may be time you put down your Catechism and pay a bit more attention to God's teachings and not those of man. You surely will not be disappointed. Yours in Christ, Dan
Dan, i am sorrythat you have suffered so. I son't know anything about you or your story but I pick up that you are very embittered and unforgiving and this is blinding you to the truth. Would I be forgiving had I suffered as you have said you suffered? I don't know. What I do know is that forgiveness can only come with God's help if I am open to His Spirit. My Catholic faith has taught me to love Jesus and to try to submit to His will and to open myself to the gift of Jesus; His Holy Spirit and to allow the Spirit to work in my life. I go to daily Mass where I read scripture and receive Jesus in the Eucharist. I am a follower of Jesus and His teachings, therefore I am a Christian. A Catholic Christian. Am I perfect? No! I am a sinner just as are you and the rest of humanity. What I will not do is gloat when members of other Christian Churches are caught with their pants down or accused of misdemeanors, Yes, even with children and youth. And I personally know of several unfortunately. That such things occur is beyond terrible. People in positions of power and trust have preyed on those very souls whom they should have protected and nourished. They were wolves in sheeps clothin – jesus told us to beware of them, That there have also been false accusations, often rewarded with monetary compensation (which opens the doors to fraudulent claims) is just as awful. What is needed from you and I is to try and live our lives as best we can the way Christ showed us and to speak the truth in love. I do care to hear the truth, The real truth. May the Truth set us free. God Bless you.
Well let me inform you: I was incarcerated for 7 days – worked 20 days and 10 days Sherriffs Work Program to avoid the equivalent in jail time – spent six different overnight stays in jail to get a court date – sent to psyche wards six other times for 2 to 5 days – all based on outright lies – liars claiming I said I wanted to kill them – claimed I yelled obscene words to their little school children – sick lying religious hypocrital leaders. I don't think you're in any position to judge that I'm "very embittered and unforgiving and this is blinding you to the truth".
I have not sought retribution in any manner for what I suffered. Didn't vandalize any of their churches or vehicles. And believe me, in my human mind the thoughts of doing so went through my head. All I'm stating is that they were nasty compulsive liars. I believe I have forgiven them, not even wishing any bad on them. I am a thousand times more upset with what the creeps of your church did to sexually abuse innocent children and the effort to hide their crimes. They weren't as you so sweetly state "caught with their pants down or accused of misdemeaners". And I'm not 'gloat'ing over what has happened to your church. It's absolutely nothing to 'gloat' about, and the systemic sickness and darkness of your clergy is so disgusting and wrong that any level headed person would know that "your Church" is not by any means Christian. I'm sorry, but that is the truth. Get away from Her while you're able.