Embarrassing journalism: Jim Mustian (l) and Bernard Condon (r) of the Associated Press
In the month of December, the Associated Press published no less than five biased articles attacking the Catholic Church over abuse accusations against priests decades ago. Yet if one actually takes the time to labor through the articles, one sees that the AP only offers its readers only two basic takeaways: 1) Contingency lawyers love the free money that the Catholic Church is doling out, and 2) accused priests are guilty no matter how long ago the accusations are and how nonexistent the evidence may be.
Nothing has changed in the AP's slanted reporting against the Catholic Church since it started reporting on the issue back in the 1980s. What is not even on the AP's radar in any meaningful sense is the question of whether most of these decades-old claims against Catholic priests are even true or not.
Missing the big picture
For example, one the AP's pieces was a lengthy article about Pennsylvania dioceses doling out some $84 million in free money to 564 accusers, yet AP writer Michael Rubinkam did not even blink an eye or bother to question the veracity of a 45 year-old bloke who incredibly claims that a priest somehow abused him "two to four times a week for five years" and who also claims abuse by a second priest who was laicized 55 years ago. Do the math, everyone.
Needless to say, Rubinkam also did not reach out to the accused men to see what they had to say in defense of themselves. Both are long deceased. How convenient.
(And another note to Rubinkam: The 2018 Pennsylvania grand jury report did not "conclude" that "more than 300 predator priests had molested more than 1,000 children." We have shown that claim to be completely false.)
This is journalism?
Another meandering AP article – one by Bernard Condon and Jim Mustian – purports to be about a "wave of lawsuits" against the Catholic Church because states are lifting the statutes of limitations. The piece begins with the scene of a Church-suing contingency lawyer looking out of his office window at a cathedral and wondering out loud, "I wonder how much that's worth?"
Yet by the end of the article, readers learn little else and are offered a single takeaway: Suing the Catholic Church is a lucrative practice for tort lawyers. That's it. Powerful stuff, eh?
Never missing a chance to attack the Catholic Church
Nasty Nicole:
Nicole Winfield of the AP
In yet another hit piece by the AP's nasty Nicole Winfield – a "Vatican correspondent" whose hatred of the Catholic Church is palpable with every word she types – Winfield somehow sees an injustice that the Catholic Church has not recently telephoned an accuser whose alleged abuser was shipped off to prison over a quarter century ago (shortly after the accuser complained of his abuse) and then died in prison 15 years ago.
What does Winfield expect of Church officials? A phone call to the accuser asking, "How much more money do you want?" Unreal.
Wringing their hands over 'lists'
If it were not already clear already, the Associated Press really, really hates the Catholic Church.
A breathless article by the AP's Claudia Lauer and Meghan Hoyer – both of whom we already cited for a dumb article back in October – frets that the lists of accused priests published on many diocesean web sites are not "complete." Imagine that.
Yet in all the time the pair wasted poring over lists of accused priests, one obvious question never occurred to them: Why is the Catholic Church the only organization on the planet that is expected to compile such lists of its accused ex-employees (including those long deceased)?
Where are the lists of accused former teachers from Chicago Public Schools? Or California public schools? The Boy Scouts? Hollywood? The question is not even on the AP's radar.
It's a free country, and the AP is allowed to hate whomever it wants, especially the Catholic Church. We get it.
But the real story here is the groupthink that has created an overarching mindset that the Catholic Church is somehow failing in its goal to to provide restitution for victims and rectify for its sins from decades ago.
In truth, the Catholic Church has gone far above and beyond what any other organization should be expected to, especially since there has never been any evidence that the Church ever had a bigger problem than anyone else. Yet the media and the AP will never tell you this.
This is a bigotry that everyone can see.
The AP needs to find some new storylines, and we just gave them a bunch of possibilities.
We hope to see better reporting by the media in 2020, but we won't hold our breath.
I like the way you bookended the AP writers surrounding the statue of Cain, a perfect depiction of your "Evil Cathoilc Church", full of secrecies, filth, idolatry and shame.
I can't wait until your Church stands before the Almighty, and explains to Him how the Church was no worse than any of the secular establishments when it came to child molesting, you were just picked on more. I'm sure He will be more than glad to point you in the direction of Hellfire to join with all the rest of the perverted organizations.
This whole piece is nothing but crying excuses, deflection as in deviation and pro-catholic propaganda, as usual. You catholics buy all this bullshit? Shame on you! servant
Poor God, He has only us weak fallible humans to do His work.
Yes, the Church is "picked on more" in the US because this country was founded on hatred of the Church. The so-called Pilgrims weren't escaping religious persecution as the schoolbooks in the government schools teach. They had already left England for Holland. Then they discovered that the Dutch also tolerated Catholics. (Half the merchant class of Amsterdam was Catholic.) That would not do for the Pilgrims so they fled to the American wilderness.
Dan – servant of who? No new year resolution from you to be honest about the Church. Next, you'll compare Harvey Weinstein to the pope! – PC
I would never "compare Harvey Weinstein to the pope!", but it wouldn't surprise me if he was voted to be your next pope!
Happily, Dan, most of the men you slander have already faced the Almighty and are beyond your smudge pot. When you face the Same, will you plead, "I spent my days on earth stomping dead, defenseless priests whom I did not know for heinous homosexual crimes that i did not witness"? And what will the Almighty say when you present this one dirty talent?
Horatio, Maybe before you start slandering me, you might want to lookup the word "slander" so you can understand the meaning of the word.
slander (def.) – the action or crime of making a false spoken statement damaging to a person's reputation
Based on the definition, I have not falsely accused or lied against any of the creeps of your church, but you have now slandered me (libel).
You're right about living and dead priests and bishops committing "heinous homosexual crimes" against innocent boys and minors. Being a fellow catholic of such, I believe you're in no place to be accusing anyone of having any "dirty talent[s]". Your church has the market cornered on dirt and filth. Glad to see you defending such. Shame on you when you stand before the Lord!
Yet another smug (fundamentalist??) so-called Christian filled with glee when it comes to attacking the purported "whore of babylon" and those who sleep with her. Unfortunately this person who calls himself Dan has no clue about the Church, founded by Christ on the Rock of Peter, unfortunately has bad seeds in it and will so until the end of time. Christ came to heal the sick and the Church, therfore, is the Hospital par excellance for the sick (sinners).
I am tired of people like you, Dan, who attack the foundation of Christianity because it's easy to do since it is the most visible Divine Institution on this planet. We don't hear much of what goes on in fundamentalist and mainline protestant sects for the simple fact that they are not as visible and there is not much money to be made in calling them out. Plus they are very good, just like the bad seeds (read priests and bishops) in my Church in hushing the accusers and protecting the abusers. So take your self righteous baloney elsewhere. We're not interested in your babble.
Dan G., I find no glee in exposing the ills of your church, the "whore of babylon". I'm not a person who calls himself Dan , I am Dan. Show me Biblically where Christ called Peter His pope? Not In the Bible, now is it? Nor is catholic. rosary (babbling prayers to false goddesses), Mary sinless, ever-virgin or assumed. Christ came to heal the sick, not sick disgusting unrepentant child molesters and their excusers and deniers.
I am tired of people like you, calling me fundamentalist or protestant. I'm no more that than your church is "Divine". Divine perverts? So take your self-righteous lying garbage elsewhere and go babble to your fake virgin, hypocrite. servant
Dan G. states, "Unfortunately…Dan has no clue about the church, …, unfortunately has bad seeds in it and will so until the end of time." Apparently Dan knows much about your church, because I'm aware it has [many] bad seeds in it and according to you, "will so until the end of time". You said it, didn't you? And bad seeds lead to poor roots, which means weak and dying trees, producing rotten fruit. Matthew 7:17-20 Guess I know your church better than you think. servant
Dan, servant of who? – "take your self righteous baloney elsewhere!" – Dan g.
Gee, Dan. Looks like a brand new poster saw right through you!! He sees also that you aren't mentioning any other faith communities that have problems, as you are smug! – peace on your soul!! This may be the year you become Catholic! – PC
Harvey Weinstein has more chance of becoming pope than I have becoming catholic. No thanks!
Thanks Clown, There's much peace in my soul. Dan, servant of the Almighty!
i assume, Dan, that your argument is that slander has to be "spoken" and I have never heard you speak. If that is your quibble, I agree. But don't accuse me since you have never heard me speak a word. I also point out that dead people –even priests and bishops– cannot commit crimes although you accuse "living and dead." And don't deny that your eruptions are "damaging to a person's reputation" merely because you slime all priests and bishops rather than citing individuals by name. The fact is the vast majority of priests and bishops are totally innocent of your accusations. To state or imply otherwise is indeed "false." Enjoy your petard.
Horatio,
Don't waste your time on "Dan" as he posts frequently on this blog. I think he is a former Catholic who went fundamentalist.
1) The use of the word slander is definitely not my "quibble". LLC corrected me saying it was libel, not slander. My "quibble", as you by now should realize is the disgusting perversions and crimes of your clergy against innocent children, the secrecies, denials and minimizing, as you have done, other catholics have attempted and Glenna obviously is trying.
2) Your dead priests already committed their crimes. Problem is that many got away with it because the church bribed victims with hush money. Many were never exposed or brought before the proper authorities. That is why you brainwashed catholics think the number is small.
3) Let's get one thing straight. I'm not "damaging [any] persons reputation". That's period! The living and dead priests of your cult damaged their own reputations! That's period. If I was to list individual priests or bishops by name, the list would just about be unending. Don't blame me for their perversions. servant
Dan G., I'm a Christian waiting to hear the truth from lying heathens, words apparently not in a catholics vocabulary.
Dan,
“I'm a Christian“ = actually, no, you are not.
“waiting to hear the truth” = factually incorrect. You’ve heard the truth countless times; you just have chosen not to listen (Matthew 13:14).
“from lying heathens” = factually incorrect, again; all you listen are, in fact, liars from the press and from your own church
“words apparently not in a catholics vocabulary” = you wouldn’t know a Catholic vocabulary if it hit you in the head…
As for the rest of your posts, same old biased rants. Bummer. I was hoping that the new year would bring you some common sense.
Have a blessed day, non-Christian brother.
PS: Glad to see that at least you’ve learned the difference between “slander” and “libel”. Incidentally, it’s not libel if it’s true… Horatio is absolutely correct in your characterization.
I was hoping the new year meant you were gone. No such luck. I thought they had cloned you and sent Dan G., just like they cloned publiar to make you. Guess I was confused, because I thought they only clone sheep. Didn't realize it worked as well for brainwashed sheep!
The rest of your false equations aren't worth my commenting.
Dan,
"Guess I was confused" = correct. Clearly, more than ever.
Have a blessed day, non-Christian brother.
Dan g – there once was a poster named "publion", an extremely intelligent poster, who described Dan as getting his theology " when he looked in the bathroom mirror", and this seems pretty accurate! He would advise to "get your popcorn" to enjoy the Dan/Jim show. As publion was driven off with threats, so it seems "commie Jim" Robertson has been driven off as well! When the heat is on, the Bolsheviks exit!
"you wouldn't know a catholic vocabulary if it hit you in the head…" = that's terribly false, pope, catholic, rosary, mother of gog, ever-virgin, immaculate, assumed, fraud, manipulative, cowardly, and what they're best at, lies from habitual liars, etc. etc…… servant
The real information is clear. The priests are not guilty of any crimes. However the extortion lawyers have gotten an easy way to make money. This is abominable.
Why must you lie? Your ridiculous statement, "priests are not guilty of any crimes", is absolutely "abominable"! "Those who are so blind they refuse to see. God gave them ears but they refuse to hear. Otherwise they would come to Him and be healed."
Yes, entirely agree with Glenna Kerker, it is abominable. But what has provided the groundwork for all this?. What has blinded so many to the blatant extortion that is taking place, not to mention the derangement of western justice?. Recently I read something that described "receptive minds". Had to ask myself why so many minds are so receptive to the smear…'all priests are pedaphiles'. Only bigots would listen to that narrative and accept it as true. But these bigots are insulting their own intelligence. For example what if I said,,,,, "all blondes are whores"? On the grounds that a few whores are in fact blonde? Most people would conclude that I really hated blondes, wouldn' they? The mainstream media are aware of a long standing bigotry against the Catholic Church and are exploiting it to sell their third-rate journalism.
Who says, "all priests are pedaphiles"? No, all are idolaters and false teachers, many are lost, deceived, perverted, homosexual pedophiles or pederasts, or all of the above. To believe otherwise is as ridiculous as saying, "priests are not guilty of any crimes". Where was "western justice" when it came to prosecuting the living and dead priests and bishops of your church, Malcolm? No! Protecting the church's reputation and shuffling their malfeasants to other locations and keeping terrible secrets was their solution. Catholics, please quit with the false and deceptive statements. They are not helping your sad church of deceivers.
Dan – all priests are "idolaters and false teachers" ,sounds like you being an ingrate! You owe those priests that were martyrs, as well as priests like Pere Marquette, and those that came with Columbus! Thanks to these priest/explorers, you had somewhere to live, and not be attacked in some European war!
Delirious Dan says:
"Dan G. I'm a Christian waiting to hear the truth from lying heathens, words apparently not in a Catholic's vocabulary."
LOL! Catholics are Christians, the orginal Christians as a matter of fact. And since Christ founded one Church then that Church is free of error. That doesn't mean that there are those within the Church are all saints and are truthful. And even when there were dispicable Popes, they never taught error; that is, the Deposit of the Faith remained intact. As He would have it, the Church is made up of sinner and saint who will be separated the the end of time. Have you never read the parable of the wheat and the tares or the End of the World Discourse?
And since the Holy Spirit is the guiding force of the Church, any attack on the Church is an attack on the Holy Spirit and Christ did say that anything against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven in this life or the next.
Choose your words wisely Dan, you are perilously close to the edge, just sayin….
Oh Dan,
I just read your initial response to my response to your ramblings and all I can say is , "Bless your heart!"
What didn't surprise me was the tired old argument that "If it aint in the Bible then it isn't true." Yes catholic is not in the bible but neither is the word Trinity. Yes pope is not in the Bible but that is just a title given to the vicar of Christ on earth who receives the his faculties from Christ through His Church and that goes all the way back to Christ conferring the title Rock to Peter who was given the Keys of Christ's Church and that the gates of hell will not prevail against it.
Yes you are a christian but without a home. You need to belong to Christ's church. Nowhere in the Bible does it say the Bible alone is sufficient for your salvation and neither does it say faith alone is all that is needed. The only place in the Bible where faith alone is mentioned is in the letter of St. James, chapter 2, verse 24.
Dan G.,
Your cell donor, LLC, already poorly disputed all your catholic false beliefs and fictitious imaginary words from the errors of your so-called catholic fathers and fake mistaken popes.
I would be in fear of treading "perilously close to the edge" or saying "anything against the Holy Spirit" if your church had any connection to Christ or His True Christian Church. Seeing that the heathen catholic church of hypocrites is so far away from exhibiting anything close to Godliness, I have no fear of exposing any of their filth or crimes against the Lord. That's period!
servant of the Only God
L.L.C.? BRAVO!
Yes,indeed! LLC, bravo!
Dan,
The bible you hold in your hand, by whose authority were the booke contained therein ratified as being inspired? And when did the entire canon of the bible get ratified? Was it the One Undivided Catholic Church or the Baptist Church? Surely you don't believe in the ridiculous saying, "If the KJV was good enough for Jesus then it is good enough for me!"
Oh the pain of dealing with ignorant self-righteous fundamentalists who style themselves christian. You need to educate yourself. And as far as your title "servant" you are the servant of your father the devil who is a liar and the father of lies and who will always be willing to take the wayward sheep and fill them with lies about the Catholic Church. We will pray for you.
I surely don't need a catholic education. This is what God thinks of your education.
1 Cor 1:19-25
This is for all you Biblically inept catholics, prophecy from 2 Kings 17, just substitute catholic for Israel and your idol the Queen of Heaven for 'false gods' and it fits your church to a tee.
But the Israeliites had honored other gods. They lived like the nations(pagans) the Lord had forced out ahead of them. They secretly sinned against the Lord their God. They built places in all their cities where false gods were worshiped. They served idols. The Lord used every prophet to warn Israel. He said, "Stop your evil ways. Obey my commands and laws. Follow all the teachings that I commanded your ancestors to obey. I sent you this law through my servants the prophets." But the people would not listen. They were stubborn just like their ancestors had been. They always chose to do what the Lord said was wrong. And this made Him angry. So He removed them from His presence.
For LLC and Dan G, and any catholics who think your traditions are so important. Christ's Words: "They worship Me in vain: They teach as doctrine the precepts of men. You disregarded the commandment of God to keep the traditions of men. He went on to say, "You neatly set aside the commandment of God to maintain your own tradition." Mark 7:7-9
Do all you catholics have a reading comprehension problem? Why do you allow your church to deceive you with false teachings? Your very souls are at stake. You'd rather defend their filthy indiscretions than believe the Lord's Word? I feel sorry for all of you. Sad you think I'm your enemy. They're trying to deceive you.
Dan – thanks for feeling sorry for us as I feel the same for you! I don't think you are my enemy, but merely misinformed! I pray for the day you are knocked off your "horse" , and have a st. Paul moment! Don't think I have a reading comprehension problem! Pax to your soul! – PC
Dan not sure where all this bitterness comes from but LLC is correct in his assessment that you refuse to hear the truth. The bible came from the Church not the other way around. Your problem is with authority which is fully vested in the One, Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. She is the sole custodian and expositor of the Sacred Scriptures. At this pioint trying to reason with you is tantamount to "throwing pearls to swine" which we were warned not to do. We will pray for you.
Oh Dan, you never, like most fundies, answered my question: how do you know that the bible you have in your hand is legit? By whose authority were the 27 books of the NT and 72 books or the OT agreed upon as legitimately inspired? In what century was the canon of scriptures finalized? Hmmmm
Dan G,
Our brother Dan is actually not a Christian, since he doesn’t believe in the Trinity. Furthermore, according to him, somehow his church accepts all the (Catholic) books of the Bible, plus the Apocryphal. And yet he refuses Sacred Tradition. Clearly a confused fella.
I guess that’s why he takes everything that comes out of the press as Gospel truth…
Have a blessed day, brother Dan G.
According to Mark 7:7-9, there is nothing Sacred about your stupid tradition. You seriously do have a reading comprehension problem, don't you. Why do catholcs have a problem obeying and following His Word, and yet imagine you're His. RIDICULOUS!
You have now succeeded in submitting your dumbest response starting with, "I guess…"
Dan G., The Bible I have in my hand is legit, because the Holy Spirit within tells me so. Almost every Christian Bible says the same thing in different words and the meaning remains consistent. I'll stick with the teachings of any of them over the false teachings of sacred [pagan] traditions, church catechisms, missals or so-called christian pastors and theologians plethora of books for sale. I'm glad you guys are so impressed with man's word and knowledge. I prefer the Lord's Word, not just believing it, but trying to put it into practice.
Oops, correction on my last post: 46 books of the Old Testament not 72. In any case I'm sure Fundamentalist Dan will have something snide to say about that typo.
I don't know why you would accuse me of something your kind is guilty of. I don't even care about the number of books. I'm more interested in living and following the Word, than I am in getting nitpicky.
Dan G.,
You need to seriously read the passages I submitted describing and convicting your church on Jan.9 @ 12:17 and 1:07am. I have absolutely no problem with the fact that the church assembled the canon of the Bible. They didn't write any of the books. They don't follow the Word or obey God's commandments because they follow their own manmade traditions and catechism. This is where the problem lies with your church. It is an absolute fraud and I am also sick and tired of "casting pearls to [deaf] swine". Please don't pray for me. I do not need the prayers of heathen idolaters. Continue babbling your prayers to your false goddess and see how well she protects the church from God's coming wrath. servant of the Lord
And you need to consider these biblical citations Fundie Dan:
So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter. 2 Thessalonians 2:15
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth. 1 Timothy 3:15
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. Matthew 16:18
YOu see Dan, no matter what biblical verse you throw out and usually out of context, you just can't stand up to the test of time and truth. Sorry you fail yet again.
I applaud your response, Dan G.. Only problem is that yoiu're not recognizing the difference between the two verses. One verse is speaking of the "traditions of men", emphasis on of men (Mark 7:8). In 2 Thess. 2:15, Paul is referring to the oral or written history of Christ, the Prophets and the Apostles. The teachings of God and His Holy Spirit, not the teachings and "traditions of men", let alone the false teachings and fallicies of corrupt popes and bishops. They are not infallible as catholics wish to claim. You might want to research your own "Sacred History", much of which no one should be terribly proud of. servant
LLC, I didn't know that he was not a believer in the Most Blessed Trinity. As with all schismatics who separate themselves from the bosom of Holy Mother Church, the road to error is all too easy.
May all catholics rest assured that I am a Christian and believe in God the Father, Jesus Christ His Son and the Holy Spirit. I don't believe as a Christian, we just pull words out of a magic hat having no Biblical background in order to promote our false teachings. I'm speaking of LLC's false teaching that since I will not accept the word Trinity then I'm not a Christian. This is absolutely ludicrous. I'll let you catholics believe all your unbiblical words and beliefs. Stick with your false catechism, manmade traditions and fake magisterium. I'll stick with God, His Son and His Holy Spirit's teachings. I don't need your added material and what you falsely think is knowledgeable, when God considers it utter foolishness.
You are not a Christian.
Dan – it sounds like you are trying to spread the "confused fella" theology! I don't understand how you can accept Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, yet not accept the Trinity! As LL C plainly stated, if you don't accept the trinity, then you're not christian. What!? Is it just the word you don't accept? What gives? – PC
Dan who calls himself a "christian" says:
"Your cell donor, LLC, already poorly disputed all your catholic false beliefs and fictitious imaginary words from the errors of your so-called catholic fathers and fake mistaken popes.
I would be in fear of treading "perilously close to the edge" or saying "anything against the Holy Spirit" if your church had any connection to Christ or His True Christian Church. Seeing that the heathen catholic church of hypocrites is so far away from exhibiting anything close to Godliness, I have no fear of exposing any of their filth or crimes against the Lord. That's period!
servant of the Only God"
Cell donor? Good one Dan. Your bible did not fall out of the sky otherwise you are no better than the muslims who say that the koran was handed to them driectly from heaven. You are also clearly ignorant (perhaps willfully so) of Sacred History. You have the Church to thank for the holy Book that you hold in your hands which you distort with all of your ficticious, fellacious and erroneous "doctrines" which have no grounding neither in the Scriptures, Reasoning (yes Catholicisim is a reasonalbe faith) and common sense.
Your deep seated anger and hatred of the Catholic Church is troublesome to me and heartbreaking to Christ who established Her. I feel pity for you Dan.
Dan g – as LL C explained that Dan is a "confused fella" then we might be able to tolerate his "theology" as the Japanese tolerate gaijin foreigners. The thought is " what can you expect he's a gaijin" pax to all! – PC
I had a vision last night of the Blessed Pachamama telling me that my "deep seated anger and hatred" of your Cult is totally justified. She said in her native tongue, "I pity the fool!" LOL
If I'm quoting Scripture, then how is that distorting it? Apparently you possess that catholic reading comprehension problem. You might want to try studying the Bible more, rather than thinking your church is teaching truth. Don't allow yourself to be so deceived.
PC- what Delerious Fundy Dan does not realize is that he is guilty of the sin of bibliolatry; that is, if it aint in the bible it aint so. He posits God, Eternal in Three Distiinct Persons, between the two convers of a book. Who knew? It's funny that people like him DARE to say they KNOW God who is omnipotent, omniscient and who lives in the enternal NOW. That is the height of hubris…wait, wasn't that one of the reasons Lucifer sent to hell? But I digress.
I guess Delerious Fundy Dan forgot the passage John 21:25. Dan for your edification let me tell you what St. John said:
And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself would not contain the books that should be written.
As Dan would have it, God is not operating anymore since all that is needed to know about what God has done is between the covers of Sacred Scripture. I don't know about you Dan but I'd say that you don't have much of an opinion about God and all that He can do (actually has been done since it is all now for God who is not confined by time and space, again I digress….)
Dan, you never answered any of my questions. YOu dodge them, change the subject and then ask the same old tired fundy questions which is a typical fundy tactic because the fundies KNOW that they are backed in a corner and know they are wrong but being arrogant, refuse to fess up to their errors. Dan, can you tell me why God in Genesis said," Let US make man in OUR image?" What does that mean? Was he referring to the Other Two Persons of the Divine Trinity or was it to the angels. And if the angels, how could they being creatures themselves created man in the image and likesness of God? Wouldn't man be half the image of God and half an angel? YOU DON'T MAKE SENSE DAN AND NEITHER DO YOUR HERETICAL BELIEFS AS WELL AS WHATEVER SCHISM BOX YOU ATTEND.
Although the word trinity doesn't appear in the Bible yet we have a clear indication of the Blessed Trinity right from the beginning.
Dan G.
It would take one foolish, ignorant, perverter of truth to make the claim that one who reads, studies, quotes and attempts to live according to God's Word is committing the sin of bibliolatry. And you call yourselves Christian while claiming I'm not one. The devil's workers are sure a strange and wicked breed of idolaters. I refuse to answer to any of your stupidity. Please stop crying that I won't answer your questions. It's apparent that you think you have all the answers. So did your father, Satan.
You may want to try researching the trinity to find that it was never a part of early Christianity for almost two centuries. Through the philosophy of the church and their manmade false decisions and so-called infallible declarations it came into being.
P.S. Google – History of Trinitarian Doctrine (Stanford) – You might learn yourself something.
Dan,
“Google – History of Trinitarian Doctrine (Stanford)” = therefore, your source is not the Bible; nothing is more “man-made” than the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy.
Incidentally, yesterday's Gospel at Mass contraddicts gloriously your beliefs.
Have a blessed week, inconsistent non-Christian brother.
Dan, if you say that God was referring to Jesus and the Holy Ghost in the creation of man, does that mean that there are three discting and separate persons who live together in heaven? And if yes, how does that make sense since there is only one God? Are you saying that there are three gods, three divine and separate beings? Hmmm….
There is one God, one Savior, Jesus Christ and one Faith. Sorry because He's not yours. Quit trying to put words in my mouth, as if that is what I'm thinking or wishing to say. You're nothing but an accusing, deceiving, manipulator and liar. Oh! That's right! Forgot you're a catholic. servant
Dan the fundy says:
You may want to try researching the trinity to find that it was never a part of early Christianity for almost two centuries. Through the philosophy of the church and their manmade false decisions and so-called infallible declarations it came into being.
P.S. Google – History of Trinitarian Doctrine (Stanford) – You might learn yourself something.
Well that is an old argument. Regardless of whether or not trinity was part of the parlance of early Christianity, it was always understood as Three Divine Persons yet One God.
While the developed doctrine of the Trinity is not explicit in the books that constitute the New Testament, the New Testament possesses a "triadic" understanding of God[6] and contains a number of Trinitarian formulas.[7] The doctrine of the Trinity was first formulated among the fathers of the Church as early Christians attempted to understand the relationship between Jesus and God in their scriptural documents and prior traditions.[8]
So again fundy Dan you are way off mark.
Fundy Dan also said:
It would take one foolish, ignorant, perverter of truth to make the claim that one who reads, studies, quotes and attempts to live according to God's Word is committing the sin of bibliolatry. And you call yourselves Christian while claiming I'm not one. The devil's workers are sure a strange and wicked breed of idolaters. I refuse to answer to any of your stupidity. Please stop crying that I won't answer your questions. It's apparent that you think you have all the answers. So did your father, Satan.
Well I call them as I see it. You do idolize the bible by making it your only object of the knowledge of God (Triune). You can't get beyond the covers of a book. The Church is a living organism, founded by Jesus Christ who to reiterate finalized the entire canon of the Holy Bible both Old and New Testaments. Any interpretation of the Scriptures outside the the Magisterium of the Church is erroneous. The Church was never Bible Only from its inception until this very day.
Fundy Dan continues his diatribe with:
There is one God, one Savior, Jesus Christ and one Faith. Sorry because He's not yours. Quit trying to put words in my mouth, as if that is what I'm thinking or wishing to say. You're nothing but an accusing, deceiving, manipulator and liar. Oh! That's right! Forgot you're a catholic. servant
So you believe in three separate entities not of one essence. Again you err and are not in continuity with Apostolic Chrisitanity. What did Jesus mean when he said, "He who sees me sees the Father" and again, "The Father and I are one." And why did the Jews become enraged when he said this and charged him with blasphemy because they (correctly) said that he made himself God? Dan now I understand that you belong to the cultish Oneness sect. Flee from them.
LLC, PC, et al who belong to the One, Hoiy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, our beloved Church is under attack not only from the government, the press, TV but also from ignorant, self-deluded non-christian Christians such as Dan. We must pray for Dan and educate him. he needs it.
And yet the good fight has just begun. You ain't seen nothing yet! servant in the Lord's Army
Fundy Oneness Dan, for your edification:
St. Ignatius of Antioch, 2nd Century
Study, therefore, to be established in the doctrines of the Lord and the apostles, that so all things, whatsoever ye do, may prosper both in the flesh and spirit; in faith and love; in the Son, and in the Father, and in the Spirit; in the beginning and in the end; with your most admirable bishop, and the well-compacted spiritual crown of your presbytery, and the deacons who are according to God. Be ye subject to the bishop, and to one another, as Jesus Christ to the Father, according to the flesh, and the apostles to Christ, and to the Father, and to the Spirit; that so there may be a union both fleshly and spiritual. —Epistle to the Magnesians, Chapter 13 [SR][17]
"Study, therefore, to be established in the doctrines of the Lord and the apostles…"
This is your quote and yet you tell me that I've committed the "sin of bibliolatry" because I strongly believe and follow the greatest doctrines of Jesus, the Prophets and His Apostles, both in the Old and New Testaments. Can you even understand how ignorant an accusation that is. You catholics are some of the worst idolaters in the world, making horrific statues of your saints and mother goddess, burning incense and bowing down to them, yet you feel self-righteous enough to blame me of committing this stupid "sin of bibliolatry". You are one brainwashed puppet of your fake church of deceivers and hypocrites. Your ignorant knowledge and trust in the fathers of the church, your unsacred profane traditions and all your made-up nonsense and false beliefs have totally destroyed Biblical Truths. Why do you think your leaders have gone so far over the edge with their disgusting sexual lusts and desire to rape young children, especially little boys? Do you also have trouble understanding Romans 1:18-32? Read and learn from God's Word which supersedes any of your church's ignorant manmade BS. Tired of "casting my pearls to dumb catholic swine". servant
Fundy Oneness Dan, more for your edification:
Tertullian 3rd century in oppostion to Patripassianism and Sabellianism
And at the same time the mystery of the oikonomia is safeguarded, for the unity is distributed in a Trinity. Placed in order, the three are the Father, Son, and Spirit. They are three, however, not in condition, but in degree; not in being, but in form; not in power, but in kind; of one being, however, and one condition and one power, because he is one God of whom degrees and forms and kinds are taken into account in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. —Against Praxeas 2[26]
You see Delirously Deceived Oneness Fundy Dan, history is against you. If you want to be like the early Christians you need to be Catholic. Your schism box sect is a counterfeit.
Catholics were never and will never "be like early Christians". Instead of building on the Rock, they have completely tripped over it and fallen from God's grace. That's period. To claim otherwise is only lies and we've heard enough of them.
Oneness baloney Dan says yet again:
Catholics were never and will never "be like early Christians." Instead of building on the Rock they have completely tripped over it and fallen from God's grace. That's period. To claim otherwise is only lies and we've heard enough of them.
Oh my goodness. Dan you needf to read the didache which is an early document of the early Church dating from the first century which explains in detail what happens at Mass, what is expected of Christians, etc. You say that I need to read some history man you are bereft of it. You can't even address any of my questions and refuse to read the citations that I have provided for your edification.
Btw, how old are you? I'm thiinking that you are probalby a teenager just by the way you respond. Plus your schism box has taught you well: attack and retreat. LIke I have said, any sect that separates itself from the bosom of Holy Mother Church is doomed to failure. And the proof of that is the ever growing number of schism boxes that have arisen since the protestant revolt. All claim the bible as their sole rule of life yet have coimpletely different theologies when it comes to our Lord, the Church, the Eucharist. Seems to me that if you claim the bible as your only rule then you should all be in agreement but you're not. Pity. (Member of the ONLY true Church of Jesus Christ)
"Remind the believers of these things, charging them before God to avoid quarreling over words; this is in no way profitable, and leads its listeners to ruin. Make every effort to present yourselves approved to God, an unashamed workman who accurately handles the word of truth." 2 Timothy 2:14
I'm tappin' out. Done disputing with your accusations, deceptions and lies. servant of The Truth
Oneness Dan says:
"Study, therefore, to be established in the doctrines of the Lord and the apostles…"
This is your quote and yet you tell me that I've committed the "sin of bibliolatry" because I strongly believe and follow the greatest doctrines of Jesus, the Prophets and His Apostles, both in the Old and New Testaments. Can you even understand how ignorant an accusation that is……
Actually Dan, that is not my quote but Tertullian's which I ventured to show you how he believed in the Holy Trinity. Again you skirt the issue and continue with your canned responses that are way tired. Learn this passage about the Church:
1 Timothy 3:15
but if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou ought to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.
Again, I appeal to your common sense, it does not say the Scriptures are the pillar and ground for truth but the Church who gave you the New Testament. That is not saying that there is no Truth in the Scriptures, that would be absurd. What I am saying is that the Church preceeded the New Testament and not the other way around. You can run and hide but the Truth of the Bride of Christ; that is, the Catholic Church is always there before you. Without the Church you would have nothing: no bible, no knowledge of God, no chance for salvation. Come home to the Church who is waiting for you with open arms.
Dan G., Since you're unwilling to allow me to tap out by adding more lies and falsehoods to the rest of your nonsense, I will proceed.
This is where all your problems lie(excuse the pun) and begin. You are caught under the presupposition that your church is always right, it and it alone is the only "church of the living God, the pillar and ground of truth" and the "Bride of Christ".
All these suppositions are absolutely false. The catholic church is the church of the living goddess(who in reality is dead), the pillar and ground of lies and liars, and it is possibly the Bride of Frankenstein or more appropriately the Bride of Beelzebub. The seed is bad, the tree is dying and much of the fruit is rotten to a core. All this proves you are not the Christian church referred to in the Bible. Your church never existed for much of the first two centuries and came into being on order of Rome in the third. Since these are the false pretences in which the church claims its start, then everything following it is false teachings from lying deceiving hypocrites.
The Bible is God's holy and inspired word. Your ridiculously stupid claim that "Without the Church you would have nothing: no bible, no knowledge of God, no chance for salvation." You think God would not be able to extend His Word spiritually to mankind if it wasn't for your miserable church? What a bunch of self-righteous haughty arrogance is displayed from you and your disgustingly filthy church. servant
Dan – I think you should get more sleep, as your early morning posts are usually very nasty! Post when you are more rested and reasonable! Pax to you, brother Dan! – PC
Awe come on Dan. Not just a little bite? These exchanges are fruitful in that:
1.As I research to answer your accusations and lies it just makes me evermore convinced of the legitimacy of my Church and
2. You get educated with Truth and facts
Dan, I quoted from the bible in defense of the Church. I also directed you to a first century document, which, btw, preceded the agreed upon canon of the entire bible both old and new. You haven't provided anything of substsnce except a few quotations no doubt taken out For of context that prove nothing. In addiion you spew the same old fundy vitriol. Have you anything of substance to back up your wild accusations? Further why, if the bible is the sole rule of faith, can't you heretics agree on the Trinity, baptism, the Eucharist, etc? You fail yet again. Just proves that the perscuity of scripture is bogus. If the scriptures are clear to all then explain this bible quote:
9 And the Spirit said to Philip, “Go over and join this chariot.” 30 So Philip ran to him and heard him reading Isaiah the prophet and asked, “Do you understand what you are reading?” 31 And he said, “How can I, unless someone guides me?”
If the bible itself speaks of a eunuch who needs guidance from Philip ( apostle of the early Catholic Church) to explain the scriptures (the teaching Magisterium of the Catholic Church) how can you say that everyone can understand the bible on their own? I guess the ever expanding number of heretical sects is a clear indiication of the fallacy of the perspecuity of scripture. Dan, my non christian friend, you fail.
Phillip was the Apostle of the early Christian Church, not the catholic church. So the eunuch was able to understand the Bible from the explanation of Phillip, because he was the Spiritually filled Christian. The Word has to be interpreted by those filled with the Spirit and not those devoid of Spirit. God would never pour His Spirit down upon an evil church of perverted leaders. That's why if you're to understand His Word you're going to have to listen to those He has sent, His Apostles, His chosen ones and His servants.
"Turn from your wicked ways and keep My commandments and statutes….delivered to you through My servants the prophets. But they would not listen and they stiffened thieir necks like their fathers, who did not believe the Lord their God." 2 Kings17:13-14
Oneness Dan, btw, your Christian Charity is lacking. I don't think you heed Christ's admonition, "But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, 'You good-for-nothing,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.
Here are some Scripture quotations for you to ponder:
Scripture and Tradition
“I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I have delivered them to you” (1 Cor. 11:2).
“So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter.” (2 Thess. 2:15)
“You, then, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus, and what you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also” (2 Tim. 2:1-2).
“First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, because no prophecy ever came by the impulse of man, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God” (2 Peter 1:20-21).
Faith and Works
“‘Not everyone who says to me, “Lord, Lord,” shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven’” (Matt. 7:21).
“For he will render every man according to his works . . .” (Rom. 2:6-8).
“For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified” (Rom. 2:13).
“What does it profit, my brethren, if a man says he has faith but has not works? Can his faith save him?” (Jas. 2:14).
“So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead” (Jas. 2:17).
“But some one will say, ‘You have faith and I have works.’ Show me your faith apart from your works, and I by my works will show you my faith. . . . Do you want to be shown, you foolish fellow, that faith apart from works is barren? (Jas. 2:18-20).
“You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone” (Jas. 2:24).
The Trinity
“Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit” (Matt. 28:19).
“But Peter said, ‘Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back part of the proceeds of the land? While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not at your disposal? How is it that you have contrived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God.’” (Acts 5:3-4)
“The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all” (2 Cor. 13:14).
Christ’s Divinity
“For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government will be upon his shoulder, and his name will be called ‘Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace’” (Isa. 9:6).
“Simon Peter replied, ‘You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.’ And Jesus answered him, ‘Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven’” (Matt. 16:16-17).
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God” (John 1:1).
“Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am” (John 8:58).
“‘I and the Father are one’” (John 10:30).
“For in him [Christ] the whole fulness of deity dwells bodily” (Col. 2:9).
“In many and various ways God spoke of old to our fathers by the prophets; but in these last days he has spoken to us by a Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world. He reflects the glory of God and bears the very stamp of his nature, upholding the universe by his word of power . . .” (Heb. 1:1-3).
“But of the Son he says, ‘Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever, the righteous scepter is the scepter of thy kingdom.’ . . . And, ‘Thou, Lord, didst found the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the work of thy hands’” (Heb. 1:8, 10).
Your first paragraph criticizing me does not apply because you are not my brother, nor can I consider any catholics commenting here as brothers or sisters in a Spiritual sense. I have one catholic brother by birth and Spiritual brothers and sisters, and have no need to deprogram them of any brainwashing as I have to attempt here. servant of Truth
Dan – I still feel you are a "brother", just misinformed! Certainly , you do much research, but its a wrong answer! Pax ,brother Dan! – PC
Oneness Dan, more for you to ponder:
Real Presence in the Eucharist
“‘Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life. I am the bread of life. Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died. This is bread which comes down from heaven, that a man may eat of it and not die. I am the living bread which came down from heaven; if any one eats of this bread, he will live for ever; and the bread which I shall give for the life of the world is my flesh.’ The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, ‘How can this man give us his flesh to eat?’ So Jesus said to them, ‘Truly truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed’” (John 6:47-55).
“For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, ‘This is my body which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.’ In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, ‘This cup is the new covenant of my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.’ For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes” (1 Cor. 11:23-26).
“Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord” (1 Cor. 11:27).
The Papacy
“And he called to him his twelve disciples and gave them authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal every disease and every infirmity. The names of the twelve apostles are these: first, Simon, who is called Peter . . .” (Matt. 10:1-2).
“And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven’” (Matt. 16:18-19).
“‘Simon, Simon, behold Satan has demanded to have you, that he might sift you like wheat, but I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail; and when you have turned again, strengthen your brethren’” (Luke 22:31-32).
“When they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, ‘Simon, son of John, do you love me more than these?’ He said to him, ‘Yes, Lord; you know that I love you.’ He said to him, ‘Feed my lambs.’ A second time he said to him, ‘Simon, son of John, do you love me?’ He said to him, ‘Yes, Lord; you know that I love you.’ He said to him, ‘Tend my sheep.’ He said to him the third time, ‘Simon, son of John, do you love me?’ Peter was grieved because he said to him the third time, ‘Do you love me?’ And he said to him, ‘Lord, you know that I love you.’ Jesus said to him, ‘Feed my sheep’” (John 21:15-17).
Purgatory
“For if he were not expecting that those who had fallen would rise again, it would have been superfluous and foolish to pray for the dead. But if he was looking to the splendid reward that is laid up for those who fall asleep in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought. Therefore he made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin” (2 Macc. 12:44-45).
“Make friends quickly with your accuser, while you are going with him to court, lest your accuser hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the guard, and you be put in prison; truly, I say to you, you will never get out till you have paid the last penny” (Matt. 5:25-26).
“Each man’s work will become manifest; for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire” (1 Cor. 3:13-15).
“For Christ also died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit; in which he went and preached to the spirits in prison, who formerly did not obey . . .” (1 Peter 3:18-20).
“But nothing unclean shall enter it [heaven] . . .” (Rev. 21:27).
Honor Due to the Virgin Mary
“And when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit and she exclaimed with a loud cry, ‘Blessed are you among women and blessed is the fruit of your womb! And why is this granted me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?’” (Luke 1:41-43).
“And Mary said, ‘My soul magnifies the Lord, and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior, for he has regarded the low estate of his handmaiden. For behold, henceforth all generations will call me blessed; for he who is mighty has done great things for me, and holy is his name’” (Luke 1:46-49).
Praying to the Saints
“Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely . . .” (Heb. 12:1).
“And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints” (Rev. 5:8).
All of your out of context verses are fine if we are under the supposition that they apply to your church. Since as I've explained to you that the catholic church is not "the church of the living God", not "the pillar and ground of truth", and not the "Bride of Christ" and far from qualifying for this trinity, then none of these positive verses would apply to your church whatsoever. There are thousands of other verses in the Bible that would apply to your church and you catholics keep insisting they don't. I'm not taking them out of context, because in most cases I'm pointing to whole chapters condemning your false religion. Do you think you can just ignore discussing what I've pointed out and deny they describe your church?
1) Idolatry, the making, bowing and praying to statues - Exodus 20, Isaiah 44, Jeremiah 44
2) catholic church (def.) – Matthew 23, Romans 1, 2 Peter 2, Jude, Rev. 17-18
3) scattered throughout the Word, I can point out even more single verses to back up my reasons for saying you are not the church of the living God. Not even close. servant
LLC and Dan G.,
Do you both have a problem reading and understanding these chapters and answering my question?
As Jesus answered the Jews of the Temple, "Neither will I tell you by what authority I am doing these things."
In my case, I don't have to answer any of your questions, because you are totally incapable of answering mine. Best of luck to all of you, 'cause you're going to need it.
Dan,
“Best of luck to all of you, 'cause you're going to need it” = factually incorrect. I don’t need no luck, ‘cause I have the assurance from Scriptures that Jesus founded my Church, that she will stand forever, and that the gates of Hades will never prevail against her (Matthew 16:18).
Yours, on the other hand, has already failed.
Have a blessed day, non-Christian brother.
You made another mistake, llc (AKA Cathy). You meant Mary founded my church, that she will stand forever, and the gates of Hades will be thrown wide open when our savior the Queen of Heaven and her church arrives. (Daniel 66:666)
Inform the pope that I'm here to help him redefine his catechism and magisterium. Maybe then the church can brag that this is the real truth.
"Best of luck to all of you, 'cause you're going to need it." = factually correct. Because catholics have no "assurance of Scriptures" going for you. servant of the Almighty
Dan,
“You meant Mary founded my church, that she will stand forever, and the gates of Hades will be thrown wide open when our savior the Queen of Heaven and her church arrives” = who is this Mary? If she founded your church, it’s your problem, not mine…
Have a blessed day, grammatically ignorant (among many other fields) non-Christian brother
Oneness Dan, from the Didache, a description of the Mass (in its early form) or the Eucharist (Greek for thanksgiving):
1. And concerning the Eucharist, hold Eucharist thus:
2. First concerning the Cup, "We give thanks to thee, our Father, for the Holy Vine of David thy child, which, thou didst make known to us through Jesus thy Child; to thee be glory for ever."
3. And concerning the broken Bread: "We give thee thanks, our Father, for the life and knowledge which thou didst make known to us through Jesus thy Child. To thee be glory for ever.
4. As this broken bread was scattered upon the mountains, but was brought together and became one, so let thy Church be gathered together from the ends of the earth into thy kingdom, for thine is the glory and the power through Jesus Christ for ever."
5. But let none eat or drink of your Eucharist except those who have been baptised in the Lord's Name. For concerning this also did the Lord say, "Give not that which is holy to the dogs."
X
1. But after you are satisfied with food, thus give thanks:
2. "We give thanks to thee, O Holy Father, for thy Holy Name which thou didst make to tabernacle in out hearts, and for the knowledge and faith and immortality which thou didst make known to us through Jesus thy Child. To thee be glory for ever.
3. Thou, Lord Almighty, didst create all things for thy Name's sake, and didst give food and drink to men for their enjoyment, that they might give thanks to thee, but us hast thou blessed with spiritual food and drink and eternal light through thy Child.
4. Above all we give thanks to thee for that thou art mighty. To thee be glory for ever.
5. Remember, Lord, thy Church, to deliver it from all evil and to make it perfect in thy love, and gather it together in its holiness from the four winds to thy kingdom which thou hast prepared for it. For thine is the power and the glory for ever.
6. Let grace come and let this world pass away. Hosannah to the God of David. If any man be holy, let him come! if any man be not, let him repent: Maranatha ("Our Lord! Come!"), Amen."
7. But suffer the prophets to hold Eucharist as they will.
1. Whosoever then comes and teaches you all these things aforesaid, receive him.
2. But if the teacher himself be perverted and teach another doctrine to destroy these things, do not listen to him, but if his teaching be for the increase of righteousness and knowledge of the Lord, receive him as the Lord.
3. And concerning the Apostles and Prophets, act thus according to the ordinance of the Gospel.
4. Let every Apostle who comes to you be received as the Lord,
5. But let him not stay more than one day, or if need be a second as well; but if he stay three days, he is a false prophet.
6. And when an Apostle goes forth let him accept nothing but bread till he reach his night's lodging; but if he ask for money, he is a false prophet.
7. Do not test or examine any prophet who is speaking in a spirit, "for every sin shall be forgiven, but this sin shall not be forgiven."
8. But not everyone who speaks in a spirit is a prophet, except he have the behaviour of the Lord. From his behaviour, then, the false prophet and the true prophet shall be known.
9. And no prophet who orders a meal in a spirit shall eat of it: otherwise he is a false prophet.
10. And every prophet who teaches truth, if he do not what he teaches, is a false prophet.
11. But no prophet who has been tried and is genuine, though he enact a worldly mystery of the Church, if he teach not others to do what he does himself, shall be judged by you: for he has his judgment with God, for so also did the prophets of old.
12. But whosoever shall say in a spirit "Give me money, or something else," you shall not listen to him; but if he tell you to give on behalf of others in want, let none judge him.
1. On the Lord's Day of the Lord come together, break bread and hold Eucharist, after confessing your transgressions that your offering may be pure;
2. But let none who has a quarrel with his fellow join in your meeting until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice be not defiled.
3. For this is that which was spoken by the Lord, "In every place and time offer me a pure sacrifice, for I am a great king," saith the Lord, "and my name is wonderful among the heathen."
Brother Oneness, just a few more from the Didache on the hierarchy of the Church:
XV
1. Appoint therefore for yourselves bishops and deacons worthy of the Lord, meek men, and not lovers of money, and truthful and approved, for they also minister to you the ministry of the prophets and teachers.
2. Therefore do not despise them, for they are your honourable men together with the prophets and teachers.
3. And reprove one another not in wrath but in peace as you find in the Gospel, and let none speak with any who has done wrong to his neighbour, nor let him hear a word from you until he repents.
4. But your prayers and alms and all your acts perform as ye find in the Gospel of our Lord.
XVI
1. "Watch" over your life "let your lamps" be not quenched "and your loins" be not ungirded, but be "ready," for ye know not "the hour in which our Lord cometh."
2. But be frequently gathered together seeking the things which are profitable for your souls, for the whole time of your faith shall not profit you except ye be found perfect at the last time;
3. For in the last days the false prophets and the corruptors shall be multiplied, and the sheep shall be turned into wolves, and love shall change to hate;
4. For as lawlessness increaseth they shall hate one another and persecute and betray, and then shall appear the deceiver of the world as a Son of God, and shall do signs and wonders and the earth shall be given over into his hands and he shall commit iniquities which have never been since the world began.
5. Then shall the creation of mankind come to the fiery trial and "many shall be offended" and be lost, but "they who endure" in their faith "shall be saved" by the curse itself.
6. And "then shall appear the signs" of the truth. First the sign spread out in Heaven, then the sign of the sound of the trumpet, and thirdly the resurrection of the dead:
7. But not of all the dead, but as it was said, "The Lord shall come and all his saints with him."
8. Then shall the world "see the Lord coming on the clouds of Heaven."
I enjoyed all of your Bible quotes and glad to see you can do so. I have nothing against the Word and have told you that I have full belief in the Father, His Son and the Holy Spirit. I do not for the last time call it the trinity because the three are not called the trinity in the Bible.
Dan, are you saying that there is One God in Three Distinct Persons yet one God, of the same essence?
I don't know what you want me to say, but I think I've said enough regarding my views of the word Trinity. That's the only problem I have with the word. It's not mentioned by Christ or His Apostles anywhere in the Bible. I believe in the Father and Son. I believe that if you know one then you know the other. Believe the two become one. Believe the Holy Spirit is the power of God and His Son. Can that clear this up for you?
Dan,
“Can that clear this up for you?” = I do not speak for Dan G; in my case, nope, your explanation is nothing of the sort. Particularly in this sentence: “I believe in the Father and Son. I believe that if you know one then you know the other. Believe the two become one”: are the Father and the Son two or one? And where do you see in the Bible that “Believe the two become one”?
Furthermore, “Believe the Holy Spirit is the power of God and His Son” = how do you reconcile this statement with John 14:15-37?
Most important of all, you still have not answered the crucial question: "It's not mentioned by Christ or His Apostles anywhere in the Bible" = who said and where, that everything must be spelled out in the Bible? Not even mentioning the fact that without the work of the Church you have no way to define what the Bible is.
Have a blessed week, still non-Christian brother.
How do those who have the Spirit, explain to those devoid of the Spirit, things that are Spiritual. servant
Would be good for you to learn to read and comprehend God's Word and you'll be able to answer your own questions. By the way, John 14 only contains 31 verses, unless you, like your church are adding more verses and words to the Bible. I'll get you started on your first Bible study by answering your last question for you. Rev. 22:18 By the way, The Lord said this. Would you like to doubt that He's right? You're going to have to sharpen your Biblical skills if you wish to quote chapter and verse. LOL servant of the Lord
Well said, Dan G. I know Dan Corner is losing the battle when he starts lying like crazy and delivering verbal kicks to the crotch lol.
You may as well return to your bragging about your giving since you only felt you needed to return in order to tell lies about me. Strange how biased, hypocritical and anti-Christian you are not to mention or pay any attention to the lies and rude sarcasm, including your own, coming from your fellow cohorts.
So Julie,
I just looked up Dan Corner and lo and behold, this gentleman has a bone to pick with just about everyone. He is the fulfillment of what St. Peter in his epistle said when referring to the epistles of St. Paul (2 Peter (first Pope)3:16).
Just goes to show that interpretation of the Sacred Scripures outside Holy Mother Church's guidance is doomed to error and the further division of the Body of Christ. I hope this gentleman finds some peace in his life.
Dan G.,
Cathy, I'm not Dan Corner. Just another catholic lie.
But who are the Son and the Holy Spirit in relation to the Father?
Already explained.
So are the Son and the Holy Spirit God?
No.
I looked up Oneness today and if you're talking in the Pentecostal sense, well I'm in disagreement with just about all of their belliefs. So I would appreciate you catholics not calling me names of any fashion that do not apply to myself, including Dan Corner, Oneness, the rude Fundy, etc. Should it continue then I'll have to start calling all of you Cathy, short for catholic. I don't think you would like that now would you?
Dan, Christian servant and friend of the One God and His Son Jesus, not catholic, buddhist, hindu, pentecostal, presbyterian, jewish, muslim or any other falsehoods you wish to lay on me.
Dan,
"Should it continue then I'll have to start calling all of you Cathy, short for catholic. I don't think you would like that now would you?" = nothing of what you can say or do affects me in the least.
"Dan, Christian servant and friend of the One God and His Son Jesus" = a couple of comments here:
1) you are not a Christian
2) “One God and His Son Jesus” = two or one?
Have a blessed week, touchy non-Christian brother.
Dan – hope you've noticed I stopped calling you Dan corner, and now just plain "Dan"!' You'd be calling everyone here Cathy, so we wouldn't know who you are talking about. You can call me " kato", if you wish! Those that identify you with auxiliary names can still identify you, for example: when you have your spats with Jim Robertson, we know its you. Or with LL C, as well! Pax to your soul for the new year, brother! May your heart find rest!! – PC
So are Jesus and the Holy Spirit God?
Dan G.,
As you can tell from his posts, Dan is not really interested in a theological discussion, for the very simple reason that he can’t base his interpretations on anything solid (no rocks for his house foundation, just quick sands).
You have provided valid Biblical quotes for every Church teaching you posted; in return, Dan keeps misquoting isolated verses, out of contest, twisting and bending them to his own theology. For example, to the deceptively simple issue, “who said and where, that everything must be spelled out in the Bible?”, his answer is quoting Rev. 22:18: “I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this book”, which in no way, shape or form actually answers the question. But you get the gist.
Also, most noticeable (and laughable) is his “Already explained” post. Dan believes that repeating the same nonsensical blabber, or misquoting Scriptures, is equivalent to explaining.
Furthermore, Dan is adamant that he doesn’t belong to any church, nor he is willing (or able) to define his or its beliefs, but he is mightily touchy when described as an Evangelical non-denominational. And yet, he is not shy on distorting, mis-interpreting or flat out lying about the teachings of the Catholic Church, regardless of the fact that the such beliefs are actually clearly expressed in the Catechism and in the myriads of Church teaching documents.
This is the reason why usually I tend to redirect the discussion to the blog’s actual topics (in this case, the poorly written and biased AP piece of news). Since Dan has no interest (nor he can) in bringing valid arguments to the blog, I indulge his rants for about 5/6 posts and then bid farewell. For good, in my case, I should add, while, in Dan’s case, his vainglory compels him to always come back for the last word, which makes the same sense – none – as the myriads he has expectorated before.
Please, keep up the good work. Studying, learning and discussing God’s Word are a must for every Catholic and Christian.
Have a blessed week, brother.
llc,
Why should anyone get the gist? "who said and where, that everything must be spelled out in the Bible?"
1) who said? – Duh! That would be Jesus. I knew you would doubt His word.
2) where? – In the Bible. Rev. 22:18 For those having problems knowing Scripture.
3) Was the question answered? Yes, by the Lord. So if anyone is to add to the prophecy of this book, that prophecy had better line up with the Words of the Book, or you may just suffer the plagues described in the book. You might be careful of adding your own new words to the book or manmade rules that don't line up with Scripture.
4) I could care less about the false teachings of your catholic church, it's catechism or the myriads of church teaching documents. Learning the poppycock of fools adds nothing to my life or knowledge. You're the blabbering church, not only when repeating your rosary, but also misquoting Scripture and adding all your worthless garbage to God's Word.
5)"Studying, learning and discussing God's Word are a must for every catholic." For every Christian it's a must to learn the Word, live the Word and put it into practice. "But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves." James 1:22 If you ain't living the Word and doing as it says, well then you ain't nothing. You must of overlooked that part for Christians. Keep studying and maybe you'll learn to live it, llc.
6) You need to chill-out a bit and not be so serious.
Dan, servant of the Lord, kicked back and relaxing in His Arms
Dan,
QED.
As a parting recommendation you should add Joker to your self-assigned titles. I am pretty sure PC won't mind sharing his moniker with you (although he is much more jovial then you).
Have a blessed day, "why so serious" non-Christian brother.
Me: So are Jesus and the Holy Spirit God?
Oneness Dan: No
Me: Therefore you are not a Christian but a polytheist.
If I said yes you would have said that I believe in three Gods. Quit with the games, Dan G., or or we'll permanently change your name to Cathy.
What does Christ mean when he says, "He who sees Me sees the Father" and "The Father and I are one." Why does Christ say to baptize in the Name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost? Does he want us baptized into three deities?
Oneness Dan takes a cheap shot at LLC because of a typo regarding the number of verses contained in John 14. And then he tries to trump him with the reference to Rev 22:18. LOL.Very old fundy trick to skirt an issue and divert to something not important. Number of verses has nothing to do with the content or message of the Gospel. In fact, chapter and verses came later after the final canon was decided upon. So, number of chapters and number of verses added or subtracted mean nothing. Rev 22:18 means adding or taking away from the deposit of the faith or the meaning in the Scriptures.
Dan the heretical Oneness guy says:
Do you both have a problem reading and understanding these chapters and answering my question?
As Jesus answered the Jews of the Temple, "Neither will I tell you by what authority I am doing these things."
In my case, I don't have to answer any of your questions, because you are totally incapable of answering mine. Best of luck to all of you, 'cause you're going to need it.
Me:
1. You are not Jesus Christ so don't compare yourself to Him
2. You have not adequately answered any of our querries
3. We have provided you with answers both from the Bible
and the Early Christian writers yet you deflect and
change the subject because you are backed in a corner.
1) Never compared myself to Jesus. In 'my' case.
2) I answered to all you querries.
3) I'd never want to be backed into a corner knowing your church's homosexual reputation.
Dan G,
great pun!
Have a blessed day, brother.
Aha! My hunch was correct He's an ex Catholic….although not a real informed one otherwise he would nover have tossed the "pearl" of great value to start a counterfeit schism box.
Dan G – not only that, but he's great Ally's with another excatholic Marxist , Bolshevik : Jim Robertson. – PC
Aha! ex-catholic and so proud of it. Too bad all your catholic pearls can't be tossed. We'll have to wait for God to crush the Whore, Mother of All Prostitutes, that sits on the beast. Rome, city of seven hills. Rev. 17-18 Read it and weep like all the merchants who got rich on your lustful extravagance.
Dan,
"Aha! ex-catholic and so proud of it" = so was Judas Iscariot…
Have a blessed day, non-Christian brother.
And LLC tops off what I thought was his last most ignorant comment with another accusation and comparison that is totally false. The catholic church hadn't even existed yet at all and he's going to claim Judas, like myself, was an ex-catholic. Supposed christian scraping now the bottom of the barrel to come up with ridiculous Satan-like accusations. Hypocrisy at it's finest. servant
P.S. Now if Judas Iscariot had lived long enough into the 3rd century, he would have easily qualified as a betraying lying accusing catholic and possibly become one of their great saints.
And Bozo, you're just as stupid. Even Jim agreed we were total opposites. You damned accusing catholics spare no evil, now do ya! servant of a Vengeful God, watch out!
Yes, joker, but if you remember I would label you both as patty/Cathy duke "different as night and day"!!?? – Pax to your soul! Re ember st. Augustine! – PC
Rereading the posts of Oneness Dan, the exCatholic turned non-christian fundamentalist (whew!) I read this gem again:
Phillip was the Apostle of the early Christian Church, not the catholic church. So the eunuch was able to understand the Bible from the explanation of Phillip, because he was the Spiritually filled Christian. The Word has to be interpreted by those filled with the Spirit and not those devoid of Spirit. God would never pour His Spirit down upon an evil church of perverted leaders. That's why if you're to understand His Word you're going to have to listen to those He has sent, His Apostles, His chosen ones and His servants.
Dan, you unwhittingly proved my point that there is no such thing as the perspecuity of Scripture since the Apostle had to interpret the Scriptures for the Eunuch. And since Philip was of the Early Church and since it was the ONLY Church in the then known world, it was the CATHOLIC CHURCH (!!!) and was so until the protestant revolt in 1500 which then led to all different sorts of outlandish biblical interpretations (yourd included) which will lead to your destruction. (Again I refer you the biblical quote from the first Pope, 2 Peter 3:16).
I'm sure thou wilt protest and say, "T'is not so for the Orthodox East separated from the Church in 1054!!!!" To that I retort, "Yes they are separated but do not teach protesant error. They retain apostolic succession, the True Sacraments, a valid ministerial priesthood. They are True Churches yet not in communion with Rome. YOUR schism box resembles not one of the Apostolic Churches whether Latin Rite, Eastern Catholic Rite, or the Orthodox."
Thank you for the compliment that I bear no resemblance to your list of heretical false churches. Christian Dan
Errata to last post: 1517 not 1500 for the protestant revolt. Just wanted to clear that up lest Dan, the exCatholic turned non-christian fundamentalist (whew!) will blast me with the accusation of the sin of committing an historical error!
All of this diatribe just brings home the point to me of how blessed those of us who remain Catholic are. Through 2,000 + years of history, bad popes, bad bishops and clergy, the Deposit of the Faith remains intact even though our current Holy Father (bless his heart) is trying to subvert this very same Deposit. It just goes to show that when Jesus Christ promised our first Pope, St. Peter, that the gates of hell WILL NOT PREVAIL against His Church, He remains true (since He is God Incarnate and therefore is Truth Incarnate) to His Word.
Dan Corner was badly catechized or learned the faith supercially and did not bother to delve deeper into the truths of our Holy and Sacred Faith. That is every lay persons responsibility. I was once like that, shopping aound looking to "feel" good about myself in various schism boxes but always came back to the Hub. And when I started reading the,wait for it, Bible, I became even more convinced of our Catholic Faith.
I am thankful that I had had a modicum of the Faith taught to me at home even though I was catechized in the 70's which were tumultous years for the Church post the so-called reforms of the Second Vatican Council. Even a cursory reading of the beautiful documents will bring to light that the intentions of the Council Fathers were hijaciked by the liberals in the Church and that is why we are in the mess we are in today but, I digress.
It's also good to see that there are other Catholics out there who know the Faith handed down to us by the Fathers and will go the nine yards to correct people like Dan Corner who are further rending the Body of Christ.
God bless you all and please pray for me. I need it!
Oh! Yeah! Blame your "mess" on every other reason, the 70's, Vatican ll, homosexual clergy, liberals, the media, Christians like Dan or it must have been the water we were drinking!
Call it what it was and still is. Greed, Idolatry, pure and simple disgusting sexual lust with minors and leaders lacking any common sense to realize the nasty creeps, especially repeat offenders, should have been prosecuted, castrated and jailed for all eternity. Where were all your great infallible leaders. Bishops out raping children themselves so they couldn't finger their underlings? You Cathy's have no answers for my questions, now do ya?
I'll pray for you, but doubt even God can unwind your deep indoctrination and catholic brainwashing. servant of the Only God, the Only Rock and that for all ages
Dan:
Dan G.,
Cathy, I'm not Dan Corner. Just another catholic lie.
Me: Oh really? You Dan use the same verbage; that is, servant, servant of the Almighty, etc. When you search Dan Corner it's the same thing. So you either are Dan Corner and are lying (tisk tisk) or a Dan Corner wannabe minion.