Falsely accused priest Fr. Roy T. Herberger of the Diocese of Buffalo fighting back
There are some abuse accusations against priests that are so crazy that they give pause to even the most ardent Church hater, and we just found yet another one.
Rev. Roy T. Herberger of the Diocese of Buffalo just filed a lawsuit against a man who falsely accused the retired priest of abusing him as an 8 year-old boy in the 1980s.
News of the lawsuit was first reported by Jay Tokasz at The Buffalo News.
A clear case of fraud
The search for truth:
Buffalo investigator
Scott Riordan
In 2018, Herberger's accuser surfaced to claim that the priest "sexually assaulted him multiple times over an approximate three-year period" in the 1980s with acts including sodomy and oral sex at St. Ann's Parish and school in Buffalo. Yet as the investigation into his claims revealed:
• Investigators found no record of the accuser even having attended St. Ann's;
• St. Ann's parish was operated by the Jesuit order, and Fr. Herberger, a diocesan priest, himself had no connection to the parish at all until 2010, many decades later; and
• The accuser also claimed abuse at "the priest's house in Lackawanna," a city just south of Buffalo, but the priest never even owned or rented a home there.
And quite remarkably, when Buffalo diocesan investigator Scott Riordan asked the accuser where he attended elementary school, the accuser claimed that he couldn't remember, prompting Riordan to write in his report to the diocesan review board, "It is not believable that someone would be completely unable to remember what elementary school he attended." Indeed.
In the end, Riordan concluded that Fr. Herberger's case was not just one where the facts did not add up, but the accuser's wild claims of repeated acts of sodomy and oral sex were so implausible that it was literally "impossible for it to have happened."
Meanwhile, Herberger's personal attorney also did some digging of his own and found that the accuser already had a criminal background that includes a charge of falsifying documents. Nice.
Yet … will this accuser score some cash?
Upon the complaint in June of 2018, Fr. Herberger was immediately removed from public ministry, and six months later, after the investigation determined that the accuser's claims were bogus, Herberger returned to ministry. But the story doesn't end here.
Despite the fact that his claims against Herberger are clearly fraud, the accuser still filed suit (pdf) in August 2019 under the "Child Victims Act," a law passed by New York's legislature in 2019 to target the pockets of the Catholic Church.
The gall of this fraudster is off the charts. He is represented by an attorney who clearly has no shame: contingency lawyer Stuart Mermelstein from Herman Law in New York City, a firm that advertises itself as "Voice for Victims." But it seems the only victim in this entire episode is Fr. Herberger.
We will keep an eye on this case with the hope that this flimflammer and his lawyer don't get a penny from the Catholic Church. It is Fr. Herberger who deserves money from the accuser for destroying his reputation.
One case of fraud among many. Where is Charlie Specht on this one?
Frank,
If this is the case then why do we keep hearing of many more cases involving multiple priests and even many more victims, popping up in just about every location the church has stepped foot? Everytime these groups of priests are announced, the church or the vatican is claiming the cases are credible. I guess it's all the Bolshevik commissars like the clown wishes to suppose. It's become absolutely laughable if it wasn't so sad for all the victims. God will take care of the liars and deceivers of the world. And I thought you were the church asking for forgiveness for your faults, when you're turning out to be the ones that will sue the heck out of anyone that crosses your path. Hope that doesn't turn around to bite you in the ass.
Dan – glad to see hat you recognize the Bolshevik commissars ,hard atwork! Who inspires the Bolsheviks? Clearly Satan, working hard a an attempt to desroy the Church! -PC
Frank – spechts head is in the sand, the phony! – PC
This is so true! Facts don't matter at all to the Bolsheviks! The comrades only care about what damage they can do to the Church! Especially economic damage. It destroys the Churches capacity to do good . its great to hear that fr herberger has taken on commissar mermelstein. Its like some early soviet "peoples" play! Everyone knows the lies that are presented by the commissars, but it will be played out, let's hope for the better! Look what happened in Australia!
Clown says, "Especially economic damage … destroys the Churches capacity to do good."
Why do church's think it takes donations and alot of money for them to do good? Do you think Jesus, the Apostles or Paul had their hand out always asking for free money before they could do any good? Maybe if your clergy didn't spend so much of their wealth on themselves, their lavish churches, gold-crowned statues and fancy feminine gowns, they would have plenty left to do alot of good. On top of that, if they kept their zippers up or their dresses on, they would have plenty more, some 4 billion plus for helping others. Why do you catholics always seem to show more care for your funds than for the victims? You'll just shuffle your assets around like you've been doing and claim bankruptcies. Can you be bigger frauds? If there is a way you'll find it. Hey Bolo, tell your fellow catholics there's plenty of questions for them to answer. Yeah! I won't hold my breath. Servant of the poor with my own hard-earned money. NO TAX FREE DONATIONS!
P.S. Sell some of your worthless idol masterpieces and you'll have plenty for the poor.
Even if the accusers accusations are flimsy, insurance companies can and have opt to settle. It's called a nuisance settlement. You guys would be amazed at how many such cases exist in the Catholic realm.
Good try KenW,
Insurance companies were settling because they knew they weren't going to win in court defending guilty lying pedophile priests and bishops. I've seen live court cases where bishops (i.e. Mahoney) tripped over their own tongues when questioned and caught in flagrant lies. Insurance companies settled knowing the creeps of your church were indefensible and the church knew it and decided that it was most beneficial to settle with victims with a secrecy clause to keep them from talking and protect the 'precious reputation' of the church. Please stop the lies and manipulation. You know it's not the truth. servant
Dan – what if ken w wanted to sue you as a nuisance!!?? – PC
Pax to your heart and soul! Have a blessed week!
KenW,
Your point is well taken. Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on the point of view), it is often more convenient for the insurance companies and the sued party (either the Church as a group or the individual) to settle. The consequence is a high number of lawsuits with no or little basis, simply because at this moment the legal process is highly favoring the plaintiff. Therefore, even if the Church or the insurance companies decided to fight the lawsuits, and even with the high chance of positive outcome, the reputation of the person involved would be ruined, with little or no hope to recover the resources spent for the trial, nor to obtain some kind of monetary compensation.
It is really sad, because these individuals have learnt how to play a system created to protect the less powerful. In my opinion, in case of proven false accusation with malicious intent, the punishment for the accuser should be the same as it would’ve been for the defendant, in case of guilty verdict. It would dissuade many from trying to “milk” the Church (or any other institution/individual, for that matter), if they knew they could face the same punishment.
More poppycock rubbish from the denier and excuser of all the church's "credible" sexual crimes against innocent children. Until your church comes clean, which seems extremely unlikely, no one really cares for your biased catholic opinions. I've heard of several cases where priests firmly denied their pedophilia or perversions for years and after being caught again with their pants down, admitted to their previously denied crimes. Hard to say who is telling the truth when it involves your church of lies and liars.
You call your church "the less powerful". They are one of the most powerful organizations on earth, controlling politicians and judges and paying the best lawyers to get them off and scot free from the punishment they so rightly deserve. Oh! We'll send them off to a retirement of prayer and penance, so they can live the rest of their life in peace and safety, protected by the church. Hang the dirty bastards so they can't harm another child. Then that would "dissuade" the rest of the clergy from touching anymore children, "if they knew they could face the same punishment". servant of God
Dan,
Just this gem is enough to show how biased and distorted you are. “You call your church "the less powerful" = nope, I don’t. In fact, I made the opposite point. In my post, I said that the current system is supposed to protect and benefit the less powerful, even when confronting entities with more resources at their disposal. Unfortunately, this system is now hijacked by unscrupulous criminals to exploit the current state of paranoid hysteria to make money from organizations (the Church in primis) that are trying to repair the damage done by a handful of sick individuals.
It is really sad that you can’t even see how well you are getting played.
Have a blessed weekend, non-Christian brother.
As much as I welcome news such as these, I am growing concerned that, with the drying up of stories about Catholic clergy and lay people accused of these awful crimes, the press may turn their biased focus on the falsely accused who fought back and may receive compensation for their ordeals. Already, so-called news organizations like the AP must resort to repeating old stories to maintain alive their biased narrative. When most of their prejudiced readers will turn from them for good, the stories will then change from “All priests are pedophiles and the Church did nothing to stop them” to “These priests are supposed to be looking out for the poor and the needy, but they are just after money”.
It doesn’t take a clairvoyant to see that coming. Even in this blog, biased posters are always looking for excuses to blame the Church and her countless sons and daughters doing God’s work in this troubled world, regardless of the actual facts and truth.
May God bless our days with patience and strength.
Cathy's clown No.2 chimes in with more deceit, lies and minimizing, to downplay the disgusting repetitive acts of his bishops and priests. Your supposed "countless sons and daughters doing God's work in this troubled world" will never come close to balancing the disgusting repetitive unrepentant sinfulness of your church. You still refuse to read or understand the description of your church abd it's hierarchy in REV. 21:8 and REV. 22:15. The "actual facts and truth" is that your church represents nothing close to Christianity or Godliness, and because of your lack of Spirituality you think facts and truth is utter foolishness. The blind and deaf teaching the deaf, dumb and blind.
P.S. You definitely qualify for the last accusation in REV. 21:8, all liars, and 22:15., everyone who loves and practices falsehood. Not to say that you don't qualify for some of those other "truth[s]" and curses.
Dan,
“Cathy's clown No.2 chimes in with more deceit, lies and minimizing, to downplay the disgusting repetitive acts of his bishops and priests” = no actual facts here, so nothing worth of an answer.
“Your supposed “countless sons and daughters doing God's work in this troubled world" will never come close to balancing the disgusting repetitive unrepentant sinfulness of your church” = since you have repeatedly demonstrated inaptitude at math, I’d rather let God be the Judge. Regardless, no one can do enough good work to “balance” his or her sins, hence the need for Jesus’ sacrifice. Perhaps if you read Scriptures…
“You still refuse to read or understand the description of your church abd it's hierarchy in REV. 21:8 and REV. 22:15” = irrelevant to the topic at hand, and utterly wrong, grammatically, historically and Biblically (nothing new here).
“The "actual facts and truth" is that your church represents nothing close to Christianity or Godliness, and because of your lack of Spirituality you think facts and truth is utter foolishness” = since you are not a Christian, your opinion on the matter doesn’t count.
“The blind and deaf teaching the deaf, dumb and blind’ = irrelevant to the topic at hand, but highly describing of your so-called church.
“P.S. You definitely qualify for the last accusation in REV. 21:8, all liars, and 22:15., everyone who loves and practices falsehood. Not to say that you don't qualify for some of those other "truth[s]" and curses” = again, irrelevant to the topic at hand.
Now, if you have anything intelligent and pertinent to add, please do, and I will answer. If not, this is my last post for you.
Have a blessed week, non-Christian moros brother.
Your deceit, minimizing, nonsense, ignorance and you are "irrelevant" and definitely not worth wasting my time responding.
Didn't you mean Mary's sacrifice and judgment, since you Hail her as your Holy Queen, mother of gog, mother of mercy, your life, your sweetness and your hope. "IRRELEVANT"!!
Oh boy Dan the Fundy Man is at it again. Foul language is unbecoming DAN!
Ephesians 5:4 ESV / 431 helpful votes
Let there be no filthiness nor foolish talk nor crude joking, which are out of place, but instead let there be thanksgiving.
Ephesians 4:29 ESV / 329 helpful votes
Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear.
Colossians 3:8-10 ESV / 230 helpful votes
But now you must put them all away: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and obscene talk from your mouth. Do not lie to one another, seeing that you have put off the old self with its practices and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge after the image of its creator.
Your church clergy is plagued with the filthiest of the filth, but you think you're so self-righteous to judge me because I've called out one as being a jackass or used a somewhat harmless dirty word. Oh! Wash my mouth out with soap. Really!?! You brainwashed indoctrinated hypocrites, grossly defending, excusing or minimizing the homosexual child molesters of your cult, think a couple of words are worthy of your judgment. Only reason I used them was because you weren't paying attention to my common sense wisdom and Dave wasn't accepting some of my comments. No problem putting my comments through when it gives an opportunity for you clowns to come to accuse, judge and claim my lack of Christianity. Thankfully God is my judge and surely no one from your corrupt church, especially you. Servant immuned from your catholic judgments.
Dan G., LLC, Bozos and any defenders, excusers and minimizers of your church's sins,
Funny how you catholics think you can quote verses out of context. If you're going to quote Eph. 5:4, then lets not leave out the description of your hierarchy in Eph. 5:5.
"No immoral, impure or greedy person — such a man is an idolater — has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God." Eph. 5:5 Your hierarchy in a nutshell.
"Therefore be not partners with them." Eph. 5:7 Not only are you partners, but you also try to defend their nastiness.
"Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them" Eph. 5:11 This is my work exposing your cult, but all I get is flack from you deceived catholics, ones I've been trying to help escape the powers of darkness and Hell.
Dan,
You are the one that is laughable. As it has been said, because the Church is so visible and vocal and is an easy target (read to milk money out of), of course there will be those who will falsely accuse the innocent just to make a buck. What I am amazed (or should I be?) at is your utter lack of common sense in these matters. For instance, I am an x-ray tech and part of my job is to palpate areas of the body which otherwise are off limits in order to direct my x-ray beam to get the image requested. As a professional who is a male, it is very uncomfortable for me to do my job when it comes to a female patient. They can, with immunity, say that I touched them inappropriately with the immediate result being that I would lose my job, reputation, etc. On top of that I could be sued. It's very easy for them to do that. In other words, I am guilty until proven innocent.
Back to the priests. Yes there are some very unsavory indiviuals who took advantage of the innocent and destroyed their lives. Those priests will have much to answer for. In fact all of us will have much to answer for when our time comes. Those rotten priests have, in effect, allowed those who hate the Church (read you) to paint, with a broad stroke, an ugly picture of priests which includes the innocent.
Unsavory types who want to make a buck captialize on that broad stroke and move to tarnish the reputation of the good shepherds. The unsavories destroy the lives of the innocent. And as a supposed Christian (we know your really aren't) you should be appalled at that. But you have an axe to grind at all costs against not only the guilty but the innocent. Remember well that the Bible says that false accuations against others that tarnich their reputations and destrory their lives will have "hell" to pay.
Since you are so well acquainted with the bible I thought I'd this up to you for your continued edification about slander:
You shall not spread a false report. You shall not join hands with a wicked man to be a malicious witness. You shall not fall in with the many to do evil, nor shall you bear witness in a lawsuit, siding with the many, so as to pervert justice, nor shall you be partial to a poor man in his lawsuit.
— Exodus 23:1-3[
Really Dan, you are a piece or work! BLESS YOUR HEART!
Dan G.,
You say all these rotten things about me, and then end with BLESS YOUR HEART! Can you catholics be any bigger hypocrites and phonies with your sarcastic worthless blessings. You, LLC and the rest of you Cathys can keep your deceit and hypocrisy for yourselves and your fake church. servant
Point out where I've "slandered", made "false accuations" or given a "false report". You better watch your lying, because " Remember well that the Bible says, "all liars, they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur." Rev. 21:8
Dan says:
Dan G.,
You say all these rotten things about me, and then end with BLESS YOUR HEART! Can you Catholics be any bigger hypocrites and phonies with your sarcastic worthless blessings? You, LLC and the rest of you cathys can keep your deceit and hypocrisy for youreleves and your fake church (LOL) servant (of whom?)
Again I refer you to all of the biblical quotes that condemn your name calling and to the quote from Exodus about bearing false witness.
Dan we have a big case of the pot calling the kettle black. We have stated facts and contrary to what you say, not in hate but in brotherly love and concern for your errant ways. Oh Dan, you really are a hoot AND still a huge piece of work! BLESS YOUR HEART!
Dan,
You may or may not have made false accusations against priests (but you sure do get off on when others do and thoroughly enjoy it and therefore complicit) but you do slander and insult and say nasty things not only about priests but about true Christians who are orthodox in their beliefs regarding the Most Holy Trinity be they Catholics or those who are not. So, you are a liar.
Well you finally got something right, the catholic kettle being black, well actually jet black. And if I'm the pot then it would have to be teflon coated.
Your church of evil lying hypocrites, priests, nuns, catholic cops and cowardly thugs, falsely accused me, causing me to spend 10 days community service, 7 days in jail, four single nights in jail and several stays at mental wards, based on terrible lies. When I appeared in court to fight their lies, they added more lies or embellished ones they already told. Some of those lies were sexual in nature, accusing me of screaming obscenities at school children. The lying cop falsely accused me of climbing a fence to try to get to catholic school kids. I could have suffered the same consequences as your priests that were falsely accused. I have forgiven them and never retaliated against your churches. I could have sued the heck out of them.
You claim you cathys "stated facts … not in hate but in brotherly love and concern for [my] errant ways"? You're a damn liar and hypocrite.
Continuing with your lies. Calling me names I'm not. Oneness, Oneness baloney, and Dan Corner. You think the derogatory Fundy shows "brotherly love"? Labeling me uneducated, ignorant, heretic or lacking Christian Charity when you haven't a clue of my Christian works. Even going so far as to insult my Christian friend gifted with God's Holy Spirit. You have alot of nerve even answering with your catholic nonsense, worthless tradition, catechism and all your false teachings, while defending your church of perverts. You are as phony as they come and are well joined with all the other ignorant deceivers and excusers of your false religion.
P.S. You should be careful calling others uneducated when your comments and material is plagued with grammatical errors, displaying more of your hypocrisy. At least be honest and admit to your accursed phony blessings or better yet keep them for yourselves. All of you.
Dan – I don't call you Dan corner anymore, although it seems suspicious, I think not. There's not enough time for care giving, answering this site at all hours in the morning, and general living, as well as writing defamatory books about The Mother of God. – PC
Pax to your soul and heart!
Dan – don't get me wrong, but it doesn't seem like much damage done to you. You don't seem to have forgiven, as your heart is filled with venom. But, I'm nobody to judge. Nowadays, there are many cameras everywhere, so things might be recorded.
Let's look at fr Gordon MacRae!! In 1994, given a life sentence, still in prison, for a crime he didn't commit! They wanted him to settle with a lesser charge, but refused, as he's innocent. Yet this was not enough blood, as the steeplechaser,Bolshevik lawyers extorted money from the Church, to boot!! He has no hate in his heart, but has a prison ministry now. Well, I don't know if I could be so forgiving.
Again, about 5 years ago, publion had the "napolean hat" thread that was never resolved.
-PC
Your sure he's innocent on this charge. Have you ever looked up any court cases on Gordon MacCrae? I read one of several pages with several John Does up to XV. Are all these boys also lying? Gordon was also admitting to some harmful sexual problems and things he did in the past.
I know O.J. Simpson was guilty for killing two people, but God caught up with him and he was charged with what seemed excessive for the crimes committed in the other case. Just saying. Is it possible that Gordon's previous lifestyle kinda caught up with him. If he is totally innocent, then that is a shame and anyone should wish him well. God will be just and more than fair when he stands before Him.
God never promised us that life on this earth would be easy or courts honest and just, in fact He promised just the opposite. I know from the way I was treated by your hierarchy, I deserved none of their false accusations either. I paid the price and like I said it could have ended just as bad, but I plea bargained because I saw how unfair and biased the justice system was and how they favored your false church. In every case they wouldn't give a damn to hear my side of the story. Ever eaten the pig slop or cold vegee stems they serve you in mental wards and jails? It was quite a shock to someone who can cook.
I "hate" false churches, their lies and the damage they have brought to the families of children they've molested. If you think it's alright to defend them or minimize their crimes, then I will dispute your facts and excuses. Doesn't mean I hate, because I live too good a life to waste my time hating sickos. I hate their sins, not them. Repetitive child molesters, I surely am not going to say I find much love for. From what I read in the Bible, don't think God has much love for them or their lying excusers either. Maybe you should try reading and believing in His Word. Final Judgment will be His. I can judge between what is right and wrong. Wish you catholics could!
P.S. I think you should experience what I went thru before you can access how much damage was done to me. Sheriffs and jailers don't care if your innocent or guilty. They treat you like scum no matter what your case. You need to witness how demeaning and humiliating it can be. Try it sometime. Twelve times I went thru the process. Easy to say it was nothing when you didn't experience it. I'm not even here to get even for what they did to me. I don't want t see deceived catholic souls go to Hell. What's your excuse. servant
"But you have this to your credit: You hate the works of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate." Rev. 2:6
Nicolaitans taught that it was lawful to eat foods sacrificed to idols and were apparently pagan idolaters, sexually immoral fornicators and lacking in morals. Sound like any religion you may know? I think you need to learn how to "hate" the things that the Lord God hates. If not, I don't believe you to be a follower of Christianity. Nothing wrong in hating sin. Peace.
But Dan, you cleary are uneducated and not only that, follow the "prophecies" of a person who has no authority whatsoever to teach and advise. Shame on you for trading the real thing for a phoney. Also, since you deny the Trinity as we have said before, puts you in the UNchristian category like it or not. You are not a true Christian,but a polytheist and if you continiue in your persistent error, will never be a Christian.
Proving how Biblically "uneducated" you are turning out to be, prophecy isn't based on the qualifications of the prophet or those speaking or writing God's Word. Apparently she's authorized if God is giving them to her. It's not based on your status, church standing or how knowledgeable the prophet is. It's by God's choosing and not by human choice at all. Like LLC stated, God spoke through a jackass, so try reading the Bible yourself instead of leaning on your own understanding and the teachings of your apostate church. servant
Dan, you are also one of the many unsavory characters who take glee in the demise of the innocent (along with the guilty) simply because you don't agree with their True Beliefs. At this point it is becoming increasingly clear that you are evil and a child of the evil one whose gates are trying to prevail against the Church founded on the ROCK Peter by our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. You say you know the Bible and yet you cannot believe the Bible which tells us clearly that:
1. Christ set up ONE Church and that is the Catholic Church
2. That you must partake of his Body Blood Soul and divnity; ie, eat His Flesh and drink His Blood if you are to have life in you. (John 6; 1 Corinthinans 10 and 11) and yet you don't because Holy Communion is found ONLY in the Apostolic Churches both East and West (Orthodox included). Again funny you say you take the Bible at it's word but dont' believe this important doctrince. I'm sure you will say that later on Christ said that the flech profiteth nothing but that the words He spoke are spirit and truth. What he meant was that you must have the eyes of faith, not fleshy eyes in order to see what he meant. Clearly you don't.
3. You Church must possess the seven sacraments. Unfortunately yours doesn't and never will.
That will suffice for now.
Dan G. Adding to your plethura of lies and false assumptions;
1) "You may or may not have made false accusations against priests …" – I refuse to make false accusations against others, unlike you, your clergy, catholic cops and lyin' thugs.
2) "… (but you sure do get off on when others do and thoroughly enjoy it and therefore complicit)" – Don't know what that nasty lie is all about.
3) "… but you do slander and insult and say nasty things not only about priests but about true Christians." – Your priests and all you catholics are not true Christians, and along with orthodox believers are idolaters and frauds. Sorry that the truth hurts!
4) I believe in One God and His Son Jesus Christ! The two are one because the Bible tells me so. I am not a polytheist as you claim. Another lie.
5) "Dan, you are also one of the unsavory characters who take glee in the demise of the innocent (along with the guilty) simply because you don't agree with their True Beliefs." First off, there is little Truth to your beliefs. Just because you are brainsoiled by perverters doesn't make your false beliefs true whatsoever. I take no glee in the demise of the innocent, but that wouldn't include any catholic practicing their false gospel and doctrine.
6) "Christ set up One Church and that is the catholic church." NOT! Isaiah 66:1-2, Eph. 2:19-22, Acts 7:48-53 Your church does not meet any of the qualifications of Christ's church. You stubborn brainwashed dumb sheep who believe the perverters of the Truth, who are also blatant idolaters and perverters of the flesh.
These are just a few of your latest lies, but as a practicing catholic I'm sure there will be many more to come. "You belong to your father, the devil, and want to carry out your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of all lies." John 8:44
I hate lies! Not fond of anyone who falsely accuses or lies about another. False accusers of priests only ruin the chances for true victims of your hierarchy to get the justice they so rightly deserve. Pay off all victims now, because you surely will be paying God later.
"Is there any God but Me? There is NO other ROCK. All makers of idols are nothing, and the things they treasure are worthless. Those who would speak up for them are blind; they are ignorant, to their own shame." Isaiah 44:8-9 No comprende catholics? Not surprising.
"He alone is my ROCK and my salvation." Psalm 62:6
You catholics can keep insisting that frail man is your rock, and I'll stick with God and Christ as my only Rock and my salvation. We'll see how that ends up for you idolaters of false gods and goddesses. Your idolatry makes you the "polytheists". servant of the Christ
Dan,
You just repeat yourself over and over with your errors. You are backed into a, wait for it, CORNER. Your father, like that of thevthe Pharisees, is the devil. Leave him and your false church and come home to the True Father of All and His Church, the Catholic Church.
Dan:
Isaiah 66:1-2
“Heaven is My throne,
And earth is My footstool.
Where is the house that you will build Me?
And where is the place of My rest?
2 For all those things My hand has made,
And all those things exist,”
Says the Lord.
“But on this one will I look:
On him who is poor and of a contrite spirit,
And who trembles at My word.
The Church fits nicely into this as Jesus Christ is the Builder of His Church and the Church is the Kingdom of God on Earth. Isaiah was talking about the abuses of the Temple Services which were superseded by the Holy Mass the only true worship of the TRIUNE God.
Ephesians 2:19-22
19 Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God’s people and also members of his household, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. 21 In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. 22 And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.
But Dan, we have been saying this all along about our Church that it is built on the Apostles with Peter as the Rock and Jesus Christ as the Corner Stone. So you basically proved what we have been saying all along to you that the Catholic Church is the One and Only TRUE Church of Jesus Christ.
Acts 7:48-52
48 “However, the Most High does not live in houses made by human hands. As the prophet says:
49 “‘Heaven is my throne,
and the earth is my footstool.
What kind of house will you build for me?
says the Lord.
Or where will my resting place be?
50 Has not my hand made all these things?’[l]
51 “You stiff-necked people! Your hearts and ears are still uncircumcised. You are just like your ancestors: You always resist the Holy Spirit! 52 Was there ever a prophet your ancestors did not persecute? They even killed those who predicted the coming of the Righteous One. And now you have betrayed and murdered him— 53 you who have received the law that was given through angels but have not obeyed it.”
So what is your point? We know that there is no house that can fit the Eternal, Omnipresent God. And we also know that the Church is not only a building BUT the Church is VISIBLE, a light to all nations who proclaims the Holy Gospel. It cannot be hid under a bush. And since Jesus comes to us DAILY, Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity in Holy Communion, and since He is God Incarnate then God does dwell in out Churches in our Tabernacles. Since you don't have that because your church is false and you are clearly not a Christian in the fullest sense of the word, it stands to reason that God does not dwell phyiscally in your schism boxes.
You, LLC, Julie and the rest of you Cathys have no right to claim who is "non-Christian" or "clearly not a Christian". You Bible twisting heretics can't even understand some of the simplest verses in the Bible and are so brainwashed that you believe your false interpretations are correct, because you have tradition, the catechism or your didache to back them up. Laughable!
"Don't you know that you yourselves are God's temple and that God's Spirit dwells in your midst. If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy that person; for God's temple is sacred and you together are that temple." 1 Cor 3:16-17 So much for your heathen temples of Your Lady and all your manmade statues and so-called artifacts of worthless junk, precious kindling for God's final bonfire.
"Christ … went through a greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not made with human hands …" Hebrews 9:11 So much for your Golden Calf Tabernacle, Idolaters.
That is my point! servant of the Lord
Dan G. says, "BUT the Church is VISIBLE, a light to all nations …"
"For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light." 2 Cor 11:14
Dan,
“You, LLC, Julie and the rest of you Cathys have no right to claim who is "non-Christian" or "clearly not a Christian" = correct. We are not the ones making the claim; it’s Scripture itself.
Have a blessed week, non-Christian brother.
Dan,
Luke 8:16: “No one after lighting a lamp hides it under a jar, or puts it under a bed, but puts it on a lampstand, so that those who enter may see the light”. Jesus established the Catholic Church out in the open, the light to the world. Your church? Nowhere to be found.
Have a blessed week, non-Christian brother.
LLC, Even More Deceived!
LLC,
Jesus is the light of the world and your church is nothing but darkness. How can you claim your false church as a "light to the world". Only Satan's church would try to claim such.
DAN? WRONG ON ALL ACCOUNTS. FESS UP AND COME HOME.
DAN G., MOST DECEIVED!
Dan, now that I have a little time to address your errors here is what I along with the Church think:
"Don't you know that you yourselves are God's temple and that God's Spirit dwells in your midst. If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy that person; for God's temple is sacred and you together are that temple." 1 Cor 3:16-17
Catholic commentary on the above:
:16 Know you not that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
the severity of God’s dealings with imperfect preachers and teachers arises from the fact that they contribute unworthy material to a sacred structure. Hence the Apostle reminds the Corinthians that they are the temple of God, i.e., God dwells in them through faith and charity, and hence it is of real moment that they should not be defiled in any way. The Corinthians, like all good Christians, are the dwelling place of God, because the Spirit of God, i.e., the Holy Ghost, abides in them. It is to be noted that the Apostle is here identifying the Holy Spirit and God.
3:17 But if any man violate the temple of God, him shall God destroy. For the temple of God is holy, which you are.
So far there has been a question of those who build on the one true foundation, some using good, some poor material. Now the Apostle speaks of those who, by false doctrines and erroneous teachings, destroy the foundation, which is Jesus Christ.
So Dan, there is nothing wrong with what you said and Catholics understand these verses to mean both themselves (members of the Church) and the institution or Visible Church. So nothing amiss about the verse in relation to the One True Church. The Apostle is basically warning them to stay holy, don't falter. Regarding the shepherds; ie, priests and bishops, not to teach anything outside the Deposit of the Faith. Unfortunately because of the few bad seeds within our Holy Church, many are falling away or still claim to be Catholic yet don't know the faith and want a Catholicsm that is basically protestant. Shame. But there is hope as our Lord promised to be with the Church until the end of time.
Verse 17 can also be understood in the sense of abstaining from sexual immorality, gluttony, drunkeness, etc. Again, nothing new here and the Church warns us about those.
"Christ … went through a greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not made with human hands …" Hebrews 9:11
We also believe that but Christ did promise to be with us physically through the consumption of His Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity here on Earth and in order to have life in us, we must partake of it but we must be propery disposed; that is, be in the state of grace after confessing mortal sin in Holy Confession. And yes this is sin that leads to death (mortal) and sin that doesn't (venial) See 1 John 5:16-17. If there is any of the Sacred Species left over from Holy Mass then we must reserve it in a sacred place and that is our Tabernacles.
"For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light." 2 Cor 11:14
Again, nothing new here. It is clear that there are apostles masquerading as apostles of Christ in the Church today but that is as it should be according to the prophecies. Christ did say that lest we uproot the good wheat from the bad, they should grow together until the end of time when the good will be stored and the bad burned.
Dan G., Most Terribly Deceived!
Explain to me how your hierarchy had any sense of abstaining from sexual immorality, gluttony, drunkeness, etc. You say, "Again, nothing new here and the Church warns us about those." This is the very reason why I claim you and your church are full of hypocrisy. "The Church warns us about those", while they lustfully indulged in all three of your examples, etc. Filthy swine molesting children, obese hierarchy, overfed pigs, telling it's sheep to give up eating certain foods on Friday or Lent and drunkards found in bars, clubs and gay establishments, etc. Oh! Yeah! Your church is chock full of Holey Sprit. Give me a break! servant of God
P.S. How dare you accuse me of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Heed this! Anything I say against your church has no relation to the Holy Spirit, because your church has no relation to the Spirit. That's period!
And by the way, all of your hierarchy are "masquerading as apostles of Christ". One thing your church will finally be good for, making it easy for God and Christ, seeing that they won't have to separate the wheat from the chaff and they can easily burn it all. Well done! servant
Dan Corner, You need some Jesus.
Julie,
Are you trying to put Mr. Corner in a Corner and have him go off the deep end?
Pretty deceived!
Julie, My response to Dan G., on Feb 6 @ 11:29 pm, can easily apply to you, since I believe you were the one responsible for this lying Dan Corner stupidity.
Julie,
Can you think of any other resources that we can recommend to Dan Corner?
From Dan:
Dan G. says,"BUT the Church is VISIBLE, a light to all nations…."
"For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light." 2 Cor 11:14
Dan, the soul of the Church is the Holy Spirit. If you call the Holy Spirit Satan, then heed these words of Jesus Christ:
Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven but whoever speaks a word against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven either in this life or the next.
Dan G.,
Well said; furthermore, Matthew 12:32 is a great Scriptural evidence for Purgatory, another word that is not in the Bible. Just sayin’…
Dan G., Most Terribly Satanically Deceived! Nothing Holy about your cult. I'll accept holey or wholly full of holes or even unholy ghosts. Holy? NEVER EVER! Wholly full of pedophiles and perverts. Not a "handful" or just a "few bad seeds". Are you blatant liars kidding?! Get real or get lost! servant, tired of 'all' your ignorant excuses, minimizing and nonsense
What's wrong llc, did you quote the wrong verse again? I don't see how that verse says anything in regards to the catholic lie of purgatory. But 12:33 sure does describe your false church. "Make a tree good and its fruit will be good, or make a tree bad and its fruit will be bad, for a tree is recognized by its fruit." Matthew 12:33
Not only is the fruit from your tree bad and rotten, but also plagued with homosexual pedophile fruits. Seems to fit your church perfectly in every sense of the word, fruit. servant
Dan,
“What's wrong llc, did you quote the wrong verse again?” = no.
“I don't see…” = correct; you can’t see the truth in front of your eyes. Matthew 12:32 speaks of two different ages in the life of men, the one in which they live, and another one after death (hugely simplified, but since you can’t yet eat solid food, formula will work for now). Now, since Christians do believe that nothing impure can enter Heaven, it follows that there will be a chance, after death, to purify remaining venial sins. Purgatory, in a nutshell.
Let’s hope and pray that God will remove the beam of bias and hatred from your eyes, so you’ll see the beauty of His promises fulfilled in the Church He has established.
Have a blessed weekend, non-Christian brother.
Same answer as what I gave Dan Gnome on Feb. 10 @ 2:11 am. May as well add my answer on Feb. 10 @ 2:16am also, fool!
I have been doing research on this Dan Corner character and from what I have seen and read on the internet about him leads me to believe that the "Dan" character on this site is, in fact, Dan Corner the Holiness preacher whatever that means. If you go to his website https://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/catholic.htm it is repleat with unfactual claims, lies and taken out of context statements of Catholics lay, ecclesial and saints. He calls himself an ex Catholic who got "saved" by reading the Bible. Worse still, Dan lies about his Oneness theology and that he is Dan Corner. Tisk Tisk. Poor guy….he needs prayers.
So you're here to convince us that I'm the liar, by claiming with the deceiving lie that I'm someone I'm not. Does lying just come natural to you catholics. I realize you're used to be around a bunch of lying hypocrites, better known as your hierarchy, but it's only through my encounters with you Cathys in the last 8 years that I have learned how their evilness has worn off on their dumb sheep. Maybe you haven't figured it out yet, but lying is not a good character trait. That's not my opinion, but the truth from my Father (Rev. 21:8 + 22:15). You might want to start believing in what He says, rather than listening to your heretic leaders.
"used to 'being' around a bunch of lying hypocrites"
And more lies. I'm not Oneness in my theology, not pentecostal, nor presbyterian, not catholic, buddhist, hindi, jewish, or any other false religions or names you wish to label me. How hard is that for you Cathys to understand? I'm am through and through a true Christian, the very reason why you don't recognize me, because you've been blinded by your father, the devil. The same reason that Rome and the Jews considered Jesus and His disciples crazy, falsely accused them and hated them and killed them. servant of God and His Son
Dan says:
Explain to me how your hierarchy had any sense of abstaining from sexual immorality, gluttony, drunkeness, etc. You say, "Again, nothing new here and the Church warns us about those." This is the very reason why I claim you and your church are full of hypocrisy. "The Church warns us about those", while they lustfully indulged in all three of your examples, etc. Filthy swine molesting children, obese hierarchy, overfed pigs, telling it's sheep to give up eating certain foods on Friday or Lent and drunkards found in bars, clubs and gay establishments, etc. Oh! Yeah! Your church is chock full of Holey Sprit. Give me a break! servant of God
P.S. How dare you accuse me of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Heed this! Anything I say against your church has no relation to the Holy Spirit, because your church has no relation to the Spirit. That's period!
I reply:
Dan, you have a skewed sense of what the Church is. Christ chose weak humans to lead HIs Catholic Church. Since you are biblically literate, I find it hard to understand why you don't can't understand that the Church is not made up of saints only but of saints and sinners. Christ did not come to call the just but sinners to repentance. The Church therefore, until the end of time will have both in her until Christ appears again and separates the wheat from the chafe. So until then, we will have saintly popes, bishops and priests along with wicked popes, bishops and priests. That is how it will be UNTIL THE END OF TIME. That doesn't negate the fact that the Church is sill HOLY. Why, well read the passage in Matthew that we have been citing to you myriad times. For your edification:
…17Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah! For this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by My Father in heaven. 18And I tell you that you are Peter, and on thisrock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it. 19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”…
Did you even read what I wrote on Jan. 31 @ 7:54pm? The only rocks in your church are the rocks in you indoctrinated brainwashed puppets of your church's false teachings. servant
Don't even try to tell me that Christ chose "Filthy swine", homosexual molesters of little boys and gluttonous "overfed pigs". Show me where He did in the Bible. How can you be so manipulated and terribly fooled and think you're right? Boy am I tired of teaching fools.
Continuing…..
Interesting to note that until just recently with this current pontificate, the Deposit of Faith has remained intact inspite of wicked prelates. Even with this current Pope and the confusion he has caused, there are faithful Bishops and Priests who preach the Truth. So still, the gates of Hell are not getting the upper hand. Why? See the biblical citation above.
It's funny Dan how you say to us, "How dare you accuse me of blasphemy, etc." Well since the Holy Spirit guides the Catholic Church and you call the Church, the whore of babylon, the seat of Satan, etc. then yes you are blaspheming the Holy Spirit.
"Holy" priests and bishops from a so-called "Holy" catholic church would never be involved in the disgusting crimes of child molesting, let alone also become repeat offenders of such crimes. Protected by the false church and even returned as child raping perverts to celebrate your unholy mass. What don't you stupid dumb sheep understand? There will be no forgiveness for your apostate church. Never Ever! How can you even claim that a wonderful but flawed human being (Peter) could ever be a member of your phony church, let alone ever want to be one of your unbiblical popes? servant
P.S. Yes, Whore of Babylon and Seat of Satan, as written in Scripture.
Dan,
It's clear that your heart is hardened and that you lack humiltiy and without it, it is difficult for you to see clearly that you are in utter error. I have provided you with biblical citations in rebuttal to your outlandish accusations and lies. How well did our first Pope call people like you out (see 2 Peter 3:16). You are in effect a wolf in sheep's clothing who will stop at nothing to critisize what you don't understand and clearly do not want to understand from all of the historal and scriptural evidence that support the claims of the One, HOLY, CATHOLIC and APOSTOLIC Church of Jesus Christ.
You have:
1. Insulted Christ's Bride, the Catholic Church
2. Insulted the Mother of God (Jesus Christ is God)
3. Insulted the Holy Spirit, the Soul of the Church
4. In effect, you have insulted the Triune God
5, Insulted well intentioned real Christians who are trying to reason with you, a non-christian
6. Judged the state of our souls which only God can do
7. Take delight in thinking that we are lost and you are "saved" (not very Christian btw)
Oh the list could go on and on but these will suffice. Get real and get back to the hub of faith which is the HOLY CATHOLIC CHURCH
8. I'd like this opportunity to add my insults regarding ignatius and the rest of your imaginary false saints considered popes, bishops or your "Church Fathers" (Matthew 23:9).
9. Insulting the seven letters of ignatius. Just so happens this charlatan or your church dreams up what coincides with John's seven letters to the churches. Just like your cult claims seven sacraments to fool its sheep into thinking that since it lines up with God's perfect number, then you must believe they are true and from the Lord. Gullible fools!
10. Calling your unholy church 'HOLY' is blasphemy against God's Holy Spirit.
Servant of the Lord and His Word alone!
P.S. "Oh the list could go on and on…", and I'm not kidding.
Why do you think you can call "real Christians" "non-christian" and believe "we are lost and you are 'saved' "? "(not very Christian btw)" Works both ways, heathen. servant to heathens
LLC,
Thanks for the head nod. All of this back and forth with Dan just makes me more sure of the Faith Delivered to us once and for all. God bless you.
Flatter, praise and bless yourselves for certainly you won't receive any blessings from God, you catholic deniers, excusers, idolaters and liars. servant of the Truth
Dan says:
Dan G., Most Terribly Satanically Deceived! Nothing Holy about your cult. I'll accept holey or wholly full of holes or even unholy ghosts. Holy? NEVER EVER! Wholly full of pedophiles and perverts. Not a "handful" or just a "few bad seeds". Are you blatant liars kidding?! Get real or get lost! servant, tired of 'all' your ignorant excuses, minimizing and nonsense
Seriousy? LOL
Glad to see you get a laugh out of the many disgusting perversions of your church. SICK!
Dan,
You say, "Glad to see you get a laugh out of the many disgusting perversions of your church. SICK!"
LOL….I was laughing at your complete stupidity at saying something utterly ignorant and outrageous. The joke is on you. BLESS YOUR HEART!
Dan, St. Ignatius of Antioch, first century martyr wrote:
See that you all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as you would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is administered either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude of the people also be; even as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. —Letter to the Smyrnaeans, Ch 8
But inasmuch as love suffers me not to be silent in regard to you, I have therefore taken upon me first to exhort you that you would all run together in accordance with the will of God. For even Jesus Christ, our inseparable life, is the manifested will of the Father; as also bishops, settled everywhere to the utmost bounds of the earth, are so by the will of Jesus Christ… Let us be careful, then, not to set ourselves in opposition to the bishop, in order that we may be subject to God. —Letter to the Ephesians, Ch 3,5
Ignatius, also called Theophorus, to the Church that has found mercy in the greatness of the Most High Father and in Jesus Christ, his only son; to the Church beloved and enlightened after the love of Jesus Christ, our God, by the will of him that has willed everything which is; to the Church wich also holds the presidency in the place of the country of the Romans, worthy of God, worthy of honor, worthy of blessing, worthy of praise, worthy of success, worthy of sanctification, and because you hold the presidency of love, named after Christ and named after the Father; here therefore do I salute in the name of Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father. —Letter to the Romans, Intro
Take note of those who hold heterodox opinions on the grace of Jesus Christ which has come to us, and see how contrary their opinions are to the mind of God… They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the Flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, Flesh which suffered for our sins and which the Father, in his goodness, raised up again. They who deny the gift of God are perishing in their disputes. —Letter to the Smyrnaeans, Ch 6
Dan Corner the Oneness heretic says the following:
What's wrong llc, did you quote the wrong verse again? I don't see how that verse says anything in regards to the catholic lie of purgatory. But 12:33 sure does describe your false church. "Make a tree good and its fruit will be good, or make a tree bad and its fruit will be bad, for a tree is recognized by its fruit." Matthew 12:33
Not only is the fruit from your tree bad and rotten, but also plagued with homosexual pedophile fruits. Seems to fit your church perfectly in every sense of the word, fruit. servant
St. Augustine (354-430) on this verse:
For some of the dead, indeed, the prayer of the Church or of pious individuals is heard; but it is for those who, having been regenerated in Christ, did not spend their life so wickedly that they can be judged unworthy of such compassion, nor so well that they can be considered to have no need of it. As also, after the resurrection, there will be some of the dead to whom, after they have endured the pains proper to the spirits of the dead, mercy shall be accorded, and acquittal from the punishment of the eternal fire. For were there not some whose sins, though not remitted in this life, shall be remitted in that which is to come, it could not be truly said, “They shall not be forgiven, neither in this world, neither in that which is to come.” (City of God, Book 21, chapter 24).
"Remind the believers of these things, charging them before God to avoid quarreling over words; this is in no way profitable and leads its listeners to ruin." 2 Timothy 2:14
Rosary, Trinity and now Purgatory. You want to argue over worthless words that aren't even Biblical and use your false teachings to prove your arguments. I know you catholics hope there is some place where you can makeup for the sinful unrepented evils you've done here on earth, but you haven't a chance in hell. Plan on cleaning up and changing your life, while you have life, or you will suffer in the next life which is to come. Your choice or you can go to Hell. End of discussion!
Dan,
Verses to consider in support of the True Doctrine of Purgatory:
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. (1 Cor 3:13-15)
Same answer as above.
Dan:
Psalm 66:12 (RSV) Thou didst let men ride over our heads; we went through fire and through water; yet thou hast brought us forth to a spacious place.
This verse was considered a proof of purgatory by Origen and St. Ambrose, who posits the water of baptism and the fire of purgatory.
Isaiah 4:4 When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion and cleansed the bloodstains of Jerusalem from its midst by a spirit of judgment and by a spirit of burning. (cf. 1:25-26; 6:5-7; Ecc 12:14)
St. Augustine, in the 20th Book of his City of God, chapter 25, interprets this as purgatory. The preceding verse refers to the saved (“called holy” and “recorded for life”) and verses 5 and 6 describe the repose of the blessed.
Micah 7:9 I will bear the indignation of the Lord because I have sinned against him, until he pleads my cause and executes judgment for me. He will bring me forth to the light; I shall behold his deliverance. (cf. Lev 26:41, 43; Job 40:4-5; Lam 3:39)
St. Jerome considered this verse a clear proof of purgatory.
Malachi 3:3 he will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver, and he will purify the sons of Levi and refine them like gold and silver, till they present right offerings to the LORD.
Origen, St. Irenaeus, St. Ambrose, St. Augustine, and St. Jerome all thought this was a description of purgatory.
2 Maccabees 12:44-45 For if he were not expecting that those who had fallen would rise again, it would have been superfluous and foolish to pray for the dead. [45] But if he was looking to the splendid reward that is laid up for those who fall asleep in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought. Therefore he made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin. (cf. 1 Cor 15:29)
The Jews offered atonement and prayer for their deceased brethren, who had clearly violated Mosaic Law. Such a practice presupposes purgatory, since those in heaven wouldn’t need any help, and those in hell are beyond it.
Matthew 5:22 But I say to you that every one who is angry with his brother shall be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother shall be liable to the council, and whoever says, “You fool!” shall be liable to the hell of fire.
Same as above, fool! Remember, you are not my brother so your out of context quote does not apply. Keep trying to condemn me, but only the Lord is my judge. Calling you a fool does apply!
Continued:
St. Francis DeSales commented:
It is only the third sort of offence which is punished with hell; therefore in the judgment of God after this life there are other pains which are not eternal or infernal, — these are the pains of Purgatory. (The Catholic Controversy translated by Henry B. Mackey, Rockford, Illinois: TAN Books, 1989 [orig. 1596], 373)
Matthew 5:26 truly, I say to you, you will never get out till you have paid the last penny.
The “prison” alluded to in verse 25 is purgatory, according to Tertullian, St. Cyprian, Origen, St. Ambrose, and St. Jerome, while the “penny” represents the most minor sins that one commits.
Matthew 12:32 And whoever says a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.
If this sin cannot be forgiven after death, it follows that there are others which can be, and this must be in purgatory: precisely the interpretation of St. Augustine, Pope St. Gregory the Great, the Venerable Bede, and St. Bernard, among others.
1 Corinthians 3:11-15 For no other foundation can any one lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. [12] Now if any one builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw – [13] each man's work will become manifest; for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. [14] If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. [15] If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.
This is a clear and obvious allusion to purgatory. Thus thought St. Cyprian, St. Ambrose, St. Jerome, Pope St. Gregory the Great, Origen, and St. Augustine, who wrote with his usual insight:
ecause it is said, he shall be saved, that fire is thought lightly of. For all that, though we should be saved by fire, yet will that fire be more grievous than anything that man can suffer in this life whatsoever. (Expositions on the Psalms, 38, 2)
Hebrews 12:14 Strive for peace with all men, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord. (cf. 12:1, 5-11, 15, 23, Eph 5:5; 1 Thess 4:3; 1 Jn 3:2-3)
Blessed John Henry Cardinal Newman observed (as an Anglican):
Even supposing a man of unholy life were suffered to enter heaven, he would not be happy there; so that it would be no mercy to permit him to enter . . . There is a moral malady which disorders the inward sight and taste; and no man labouring under it is in a condition to enjoy what Scripture calls the fulness of joy in God’s presence, . . . (Sermon on this verse: “Holiness Necessary for Future Blessedness,” 1834)
Revelation 21:27 But nothing unclean shall enter it, nor any one who practises abomination or falsehood, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s book of life.
The abundance of scriptural evidence for purgatory led to a consensus among the Church fathers: summarized by Protestant church historian Philip Schaff:
These views of the middle state in connection with prayers for the dead show a strong tendency to the Roman Catholic doctrine of Purgatory. (History of the Christian Church, vol. 2, “Ante-Nicene Christianity: A. D. 100-325,” 5th edition, New York: 1889; ch. 12, sec. 156, 604-606)
Same answer as above, including calling you a longwinded fool!
servant of God, not your gods or goddesses
P.S. I would believe you Cathys think Mary is the third person of the Trinity, though calling her Mother of God puts her above all three. Blasphemy from utter heretics. FOOLS!
As Christians we follow the false teachings of no human beings, let alone those of your bishops, popes, saints, presbyters or deacons.
"Be zealous to do all things in harmony with God, with the bishops presiding in the place of God." ignatius to the Magnesians
NO ONE takes the place or presides in the place of God or Christ. We have true teachers (i.e. Apostles), but even they never take the place of the Creator or Our Savior. NOBODY!!!
You better try reading what Peter and Paul teaches, rather than depending on your manmade catholic phony saints.
DAN:
YOU. ARE. NOT. A. CHRISTIAN.
YOU. ARE. A. HERETIC.
YOU. ARE. SPIRITUALLY. INEPT.
YOUR "CHURCH". IS. NOT. BIBLICAL.
YOU. ARE. IGNORANT. OF. HISTORY.
YOU. ARE. BLASPHEMOUS.
and by the way…..
BLESS YOUR UNCHRISTIAN, ARROGANT, HAUGHTY AND HERETICAL HEART!
Dan,
“NO ONE takes the place or presides in the place of God or Christ. We have true teachers (i.e. Apostles), but even they never take the place of the Creator or Our Savior. NOBODY!!!” = correct. Saint Ignatius meant “presiding in the place of worship”, where they prayed together (a church, to use a modern analogy). He didn’t mean “replacing God”, as you seem to infer. Even Peter and his successors, the Popes, do not take the place of God any more than an administrator takes the place of the Master.
Please read the documents of the Early Church Fathers with the intention of understanding, not to only find faults. It will save you a lot of embarrassment.
Have a blessed week, non-Christian brother.
Dan G., 2/09 @ 9:17pm,
Seen a psychiatrist lately? Sounds like you have some pent up anger and hatred you may want to confront. Not very Christian there, heretical heathen idolater. Maybe if you'd listen to my Spiritual counseling, instead of fighting the truth, you could have made some headway with your temper. But then I would have to send you a bill. servant to the 'wholly' insane
And thank you, but I don't really need your hypocritical 'UNCHRISTIAN' blessing. Yours either LLC.
LLC,
Nice try llc, but I've seen too many quotes from "Church Fathers" and popes claiming to be God, taking the place of God on earth, Holy Fathers claiming to represent Christ on earth and priest Fathers little Christs. Remember Matthew 23:9 saying title no one Father except your Heavenly Father. How do you Cathys believe you own the Truth. Phony liars and deceivers who refuse to even listen to or follow Christs words, but think you're Christians. DESPICABLE!
To ALL my fellow Catholics who are the original and true Christians who have the fullness of the Faith one delivered to the Saints found only in the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church,
The proof is in the pudding on just how ignorant and uneducated Dan (most probably Dan Corner) is. This one is especially telling:
9. Insulting the seven letters of ignatius. Just so happens this charlatan or your church dreams up what coincides with John's seven letters to the churches. Just like your cult claims seven sacraments to fool its sheep into thinking that since it lines up with God's perfect number, then you must believe they are true and from the Lord. Gullible fools!
Dan, wow, to insult a first century martyr for the faith whose blood was fertizler for the Holy Catholic Church and future generations of Christians is just well, there are no words to describe the lunacy. Dan, I don't think you have a iota of the "balls" St. Igantius and other men,women and children of those first bloody centuriesof Christianity had to give witness to the only True Faith by the shedding of their blood in the arenas in the ancient Roman Empire. It was because of them that we are here today in our comfortable little worlds "anymously" slinging mud at each other with no fear of being thrown to the lions, used as torches, grilled on irons, lowered in boiling oil, crucified, stoned, etc. We have the faith because their bloodshed stood the test of time and made fertile the harvest fields of the Church. What a sorry individual you are (man up if you feel insulted becaue ya ah Blanch, ya ah).
Now for some education:
The Church is Holy because Christ founded it and you blaspheme Him because he does not found anything unholy because He is All Holy Since he is God Incarnate, the Second Person of the Holy Trinity.
The number 7 denotes completess and perfection. God created the world in 7 days. There are seven sacraments in the Holy Catholic Church. You are to forgive 70 x 7 times (which means always). There are 7 deadly sins, etc.
Ignatius happend to be Bishop of Antioch and as bishop wrote letters to his flock. He was not trying to copy St. John who wrote the seven letters to the seven churches of that area of the world. Your logic and reasoning is puerile.
To repeat, you are a sorry individual who harbors no Christian Charity and is spiritually arrogant. You clearly, even though you deny it, take glee in your arrogance that you are saved and we are not; that you know the bible and we don't (which is false since we have given you many biblical references that back up our claims); you insult the holy martyers; you blaspheme the Holy Spirit but calling the Church the whore of Babylon and satanic. Come to think of it, why would satan preach Jesus Christ? After all, Christ did say to the pharisees who accused him of casting out demons in the devil's name, "If satan casts out satan, then how can his kingdom stand?' So in sum, in your ignorance, you make stupid accusations based on random bible verses almost always taken out of context which highlights your utter inapptitude to be a credible apologist for your unchristian so-called faith. Whew! BLESS YOUR HEART!
I agree that there is alot of "fertizler" in your unholy church, but I think you meant rotten manure. That might explain why the church produces so many rotten "bad seeds" in their hierarchy. You think you can use vulgarity ("balls") towards me and that's OK? You are such a hypocrite! And I've suffered alot of trouble from the liars and accusers of your cult. I have alot of guts putting up with all you catholic cowards.
You think you can call me names like ignorant and uneducated and yet you have terrible spelling, sentence structure and grammar ("fertizler, martyers, anymously, completess"), and these spelling mistakes are in this one comment. You've accused me, but I never was pointing out your many mistakes. Now several times calling me "ignorant and uneducated", I'm going to point out your ridiculous hypocrisies. I made a typo of 'and', spelling it 'abd', and LLC said how my sentence was grammatically incorrect. Are all you cathys big hypocrites?
When I criticize your corrupt false church, it can never be considered "blasphemy" because your church is not holy by any means, worships honors and bows to Mary over Christ and has no connection to the Holy Spirit whatsoever. Stop using your catechism, fake fathers and corrupt popes false teachings as ammunition against my Biblical quotes and knowledge. Strange how you think you can attack me by quoting the Bible out of context, but claim I do it mistakingly. You are such an accusing, lying, phony hypocrite and belong with such a fraudulent organization of creeps and liars.
Any real Christian would be ashamed to belong to such an apostate group of heretics.
servant of the Lord
P.S. Would all you hypocrites keep your phony blessings to yourselves. It's sickening!
Since Romans 1:18-32 most definitely applies to you and your church of idolaters and perverts, then Romans 8:31-39 applies to me, More than Conquerors, fighting the good fight!
AKA – Can't Touch This! No, You Can't Touch This! LOL
And Satan would "preach Jesus Christ", if he thought it would fool some dumb brainwashed catholics into believing they were worshiping God or Jesus when in reality they are truly worshiping and idolizing Christ's mother. All you Cathys are proof that its working. servant
Dan G.,
The Romans killed your so-called martyrs by evil torture of burning at the stake and boiling in oil. The so-called holy 'Roman' catholic church took over the same task of killing and torturing anyone who didn't agree with the teachings of their unholy church by the same methods of 'burning at the stake' and 'boiling in oil'. You blind sheep don't realize your church hierarchy is worshiping the same evil prince of this world and following his plan straight to Hell. Idolaters, sexual perverts, cowards, liars, deceivers, etc. etc. WAKE UP, Catholics!
P.S. If they still thought they could get away with it, then I would have met the same fate, jackass!
Dan,
Since you are mentioning me inappropriately, I will set the record straight.
“I made a typo of 'and', spelling it 'abd', and LLC said how my sentence was grammatically incorrect” = no, I didn’t. Can you please show the readers where, after you only mistyped “abd” for “and”, I called your sentence “grammatically incorrect”?
While it is true that I have called out your writing as usually confused, packed with grammatical errors and misspellings, it is also true that I do not worry about one-time typos (unless they are funny), since I make them, too.
In other words, please do not lie.
Have a blessed week, non-Christian brother.
I think you should research it yourself, since you're the liar accusing me of lying. Don't you think it's quite hypocritical to call out my mistakes and yet all you do is flatter your fellow Cathys when they've made more mistakes than I do. Also, you've made alot more mistakes than just typos, Mr. Know-It-All number 2. Sorry, no one was a bigger know-nothing Know-It-All than the mockin' publiar. You do rate a very close second though. And Dan G. might rate a 1 and 1/2. You all tie as jackasses though.
Dan G.,
as usual, toD (the other Dan) chooses not to engage in actual and fruitful discussions, despite the many chances we (mostly you) have given him. Instead he resolves to more name calling and misquoting of bible verses, as if his interpretation were authoritative. He has not given any alternative interpretation to the many Biblical verses provided here (and elsewhere) in support of the teachings of the Church that Jesus has founded.
Meanwhile, he has added nothing of substance to the actual topic of this post.
Therefore, as much as I enjoy your references and point-to-point rebuttal of his rants, I am bidding farewell to this discussion. I have more important things to do than to indulge the tantrums of a three-year old.
Have a blessed week, brother in Christ.
LLC, you're right. My mother has always said not to argue with fundamentalists for the shere reason that they are unreasonable. I too will stop at this point. I have thrown enough pearls to the swine, aka, Dan (most probably Corner). God bless you. And Dan, BLESS YOUR UNCHRISTIAN, ARROGANT, HAUGHTY AND HERETICAL HEART!
Are you talking about answering to your twisted interpretations of Biblical Truth. No, I will not answer to your stupid questioning. Nor do you answer to verses, statements or questions I pose to you when you have no answers. You think I don't see how you ignore what you can't dispute? Your church only claims to be Biblically sound, when nothing is further from the truth. Catechism and tradition sound is not Biblically sound. So-called infallible dumb popes that can't even follow simple sentences in the Bible. A church that doesn't even understand that they are breaking the Ten Commandments, worshiping and bowing to statues of Mary or so-called saints and disobeying many statements made by Christ Himself (Matthew chapter 5-7, 23:9, just to name a few). Todays pompous Pharisees and false Teachers of the Law. Fools and heretical deceivers! servant
P.S. LLC, Liars and deceivers, like yourselves, add "nothing of substance" to any conversation.
Dan G.
Now are we talking here of your real mother or the Whore catholics worship that sits on the Beast? Only fake people can appreciate fake pearls, so you truly will not be missed. I do thoroughly enjoy laughing at your fake blessings. LATER YOU FRAUDULENT HYPOCRITICAL HERETIC! I wish I could say you'll be missed, but that would be a lie and I prefer not to join you lying fake christians. servant of the Truth
P.S. Maybe your mommy can buy you a string of fake pearls for St. Valentines Day, piggy.
And by the way, your mother told you not to argue with a real Christian because you will definitely be proven to be wrong. Wrong religion, wrong savior, wrong theology, wrong god-dess, wrong god, etc.etc.etc. Should have listened to good old mom or fake mother Mary.
Oh Dan, how puerile of you to pick on my "spelling error" but the truth is that what I wrote was typed in haste. The bottom line is is that you understood what I meant to I accomplished what I set out to do. As far as using vulgarity well, seems to me you use the same tactice when you call me and others "ass" so the balls reference still stands. Besides, I still insist that you don't have the balls to face the lions as I would imagine most of us today do not have the same cojones of the first century Christians. You're an idiot. Sorry but yes, you are an idiot.
Dan G.,
I would not have pointed out your poor grammar or spelling if you hadn't called me "ignorant and uneducated" for the fourth time. I was noting the hypocrisy of calling one uneducated when you yourself are not terribly skilled in education and I won't even mention your lack of Biblical education. You may have quite an extensive catholic education, but to the Lord God that education has led many into foolishness and perversions of the truth. Somehow you're blinded to see that. Might also be careful of calling me an idiot, Mr. Know-It-All #3. servant
Dan,
OH please. Romans 1:18-32? Tired. As we have stated many times, there will be saints and sinners in the Church who will be "weeded out" at the end of time. So again, your biblical verse slinging is redundant.
Romans 8:32-39 refers to you? Well it proves your spiritual arrogance and nothing more. You think you know you are saved but that is the height of hubris. Again, you fail.
All I can glean from your first paragraph is the same old 'tired' excuses and denials that your church leaders swim in a cesspool of filth and that should never take place in any church claiming holiness of any kind. Your hierarchy are nothing more than lying deceiving pompous fools. That is why I can truthfully say that you calling your church Holy is most definitely blasphemy against the One and Only Pure God and His Holy Spirit.
Apparently you fail to understand what Paul is stating in the Spirit. There must be good reason why God was directing this curse towards Rome. Anyone deceived by idolatry will become fools, leading them to succumb to all sorts of sin.
"Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal human beings [i.e. statues of Mary] and birds and animals and reptiles." Romans 1:22-23 Even worse your evil gargoyles on your temples. A combination of bird, animal or reptile. Scary sick and disgusting creatures of the devil.
These verses led the deceived into the sins listed in the rest of the chapter. What don't you understand? Those who stay in this apostate idol-worshiping religion, or make excuses and deny their sinfulness will suffer a similar fate as those commiting these horrible sins. Only chance of salvation is to run clear of this Whore of Babylon, Seed of Satan. I believe there may be a remnant that escapes from their evil grasp, but from what I've witnessed they can be the most stubborn indoctrinated cult followers that I've ever seen or come across. IMHO
From Mr. Corner another gem:
The Romans killed your so-called martyrs by evil torture of burning at the stake and boiling in oil. The so-called holy 'Roman' catholic church took over the same task of killing and torturing anyone who didn't agree with the teachings of their unholy church by the same methods of 'burning at the stake' and 'boiling in oil'. You blind sheep don't realize your church hierarchy is worshiping the same evil prince of this world and following his plan straight to Hell. Idolaters, sexual perverts, cowards, liars, deceivers, etc. etc. WAKE UP, Catholics!
P.S. If they still thought they could get away with it, then I would have met the same fate, jacka
So-called martyers? Again you don't have the balls they when they met their fate as a witness to the One True Faith of the Catholic Church. And your inference to the Inquistion is tired. FAIL.
Baloney! No FAIL whatsoever. Your church has an evil terrible history and I'm sorry you're making me have to look at such. The more I look at your previous history, along with researching your Child Abuse Matters, the more disgusted I have become with all the lies, deceit and filth.
Another gem from the self-deluded fool:
P.S. I would believe you Cathys think Mary is the third person of the Trinity, though calling her Mother of God puts her above all three. Blasphemy from utter heretics. FOOLS!
Again a foolish, ignorant and just plain stupid statment. Not one Catholic thinks that Mary is the third person of the Trinity and since you are not a Christian, it makes sense that you can't fathom the truth that Mary is the Mother of God INCARNATE: that is, Jesus Christ who you claim as your savior but do not believe to be God.
I'm saying you catholics think Mary is greater than just the third person of the Trinity and calling her Mother of God puts her above all of the three. Blasphemy to even make such a statement. She is no Mother of God and its utter stupidity to claim you're talking of Christ. The church twists everything and then makes excuses for why they claim such. They have confused many of their sheep. They even think she can crush Satan, the snake. NO WAY!
Dear moderator, I think it's time to block this Dan from commenting on here since he adds nothing of value.
I must say that maybe you should suffer the same fate for adding "nothing of value" when it comes to your catholic nonsense and stupidity. servant of Truth
I must say that maybe you should suffer the same fate for adding "nothing of value" when it comes to your catholic nonsense and stupidity.
Oh Dan, I don't expect that you would get blocked because this is a legit site and we have enough PC bullshit out there. In other words, freedom of speech is protected although as I have said, your speech isn't speech but nasty invective. I just wanted to get a rise out of you and, well I DID!!!!! BLESS YOUR EASILY OFFENDED, HERETICAL AND UTTERLY ILLOGICAL HEART!
Dan,
You're not going to get blocked because this moderator will honor your freedom of speech even though what you write on here is complete doo doo (didn't want to offend your sensitive ears). I only said what I said to the moderator to get a rise our of you and, well, I DID!!!!!! BLESS YOUR ERRONEOUS HEART!
Another bombshell error just posted by Dan:
I'm saying you catholics think Mary is greater than just the third person of the Trinity and calling her Mother of God puts her above all of the three. Blasphemy to even make such a statement. She is no Mother of God and its utter stupidity to claim you're talking of Christ. The church twists everything and then makes excuses for why they claim such. They have confused many of their sheep. They even think she can crush Satan, the snake. NO WAY!
She does crush the head of the Serpent because of her yes to God in the Incarnation, she participates in the crushing of the serpent's head. She is the woman clothed with the Sun with twelve stars over her head and the moon under her feet. Sorry Dan but again a sorry attempt to discredit the Mother of God because she is the Mother of Jesus, God Incarnate (you clearly do not believe Jesus is God and therefore makes you unchristian).
Some reference points for you:
Regarding Genesis 3:15
Modern translations follow what the original Hebrew of the passage says. The Douay-Rheims, however, is following a manuscript variant found in many early Fathers and some editions of the Vulgate (but not the original; Jerome followed the Hebrew text in his edition of the Vulgate). The variant probably originated as a copyist error when a scribe failed to take note that the subject of the verse had shifted from the woman to the seed of the woman.
People notice this variant today because the expression found in the Douay-Rheims has been the basis of some popular Catholic art, showing a serene Mary standing over a crushed serpent.
Dan, continuing:
This is because Christians have recognized (all the way back to the first century) that the woman and her seed mentioned in Genesis 3:15 do not simply stand for Eve and one of her righteous sons (either Abel or Seth). They prophetically foreshadow Mary and Jesus. Thus, just as the first half of the verse, speaking of the enmity between the serpent and the woman, has been applied to Mary, the second half, speaking of the head crushing and heel striking, has also been applied to Mary due to the manuscript variant, though it properly applies to Jesus, given the original Hebrew.
This does not mean that the idea cannot be validly applied to Mary as well. Through her cooperation in the incarnation of Christ, so that the Son of God (who, from the cross, directly crushed the head of the serpent) became her seed, Mary did crush the head of the serpent. In the same way, the serpent struck at Christ on the cross, and indirectly struck at Mary’s heart as well, who had to witness the death of her own Son (cf. John 19:25-27). As the holy priest Simeon had told her years before: see (Luke 2:34b-35).
Thus Jesus crushed the serpent directly and was directly struck by the serpent; Mary, through her cooperation in the incarnation and her witnessing the sufferings and death of her Son, indirectly crushed the serpent and was indirectly struck by the serpent.
This has long been recognized by Catholics. The footnotes provided a couple of hundred years ago by Bishop Challoner in his revision of the Douay state, “The sense [of these two readings] is the same: for it is by her seed, Jesus Christ, that the woman crushes the serpent’s head.”
Revelation 12 speaks for itself.
Dan G. states, "Revelation 12 speaks for itself." As if this backs his false belief that Mary "crushes the serpents head". Yet Rev. 12 doesn't prove his point whatsoever.
And so does Revelations 17 and 18 speaks for itself, but apparently it's falling on catholic deaf ears. So sad that so many can be so deceived by false teachings and their promoters.
From Dan:
Baloney! No FAIL whatsoever. Your church has an evil terrible history and I'm sorry you're making me have to look at such. The more I look at your previous history, along with researching your Child Abuse Matters, the more disgusted I have become with all the lies, deceit and filth.
Sounds like a broken record Dan. FAIL. BLESS YOUR ARROGANT, IGNORANT, UNEDUCATED, DECEITUL, DELUDED, HERETICAL AND UTTERLY LOST HEART!
How many times has Dan said the same thing to which I responded over and over with, ahem, the same things? Does that mean that will all of the logical explanations from scripture, the early witness of the Church Fathers and Early Church that his heart is so hardened that the Truth cannot penetrate his soul, heart and mind? Or is it that he is choosing to be ignorant? Well let's see what the St. Thomas Acquinas says about willful ignorance:
St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa, I-II, q. 76, a. 1, a. 3, Whether ignorance can be the cause of sin?: “It is clear that not every kind of ignorance is the cause of a sin, but that alone which removes the knowledge which would prevent the sinful act. …This may happen on the part of the ignorance itself, because, to wit, this ignorance is voluntary, either directly, as when a man wishes of set purpose to be ignorant of certain things that he may sin the more freely; or indirectly, as when a man, through stress of work or other occupations, neglects to acquire the knowledge which would restrain him from sin. For such like negligence renders the ignorance itself voluntary and sinful, provided it be about matters one is *bound and able to know.”
*Catholics are bound (required) to learn and know their Faith. A sin against faith (often caused by willful ignorance) is the gravest of all sins according to St. Thomas Aquinas.
St. Augustine, Cited by St. Thomas, characterizes sin against faith in these words: Hoc est peccatum quo tenentur cuncta peccata. "This is the sin which comprehends all other sins."
St. Thomas says: "The gravity of sin is determined by the interval which it places between man and God; now sin against faith, divides man from God as far as possible, since it deprives him of the true knowledge of God; it therefore follows that sin against faith is the greatest of all sins."
So Dan you are a former Catholic who didn't take the time to know his faith. I'd be scared, very scared.
I thought you were going to stop casting your fake pearls. Seems like you have an unending supply of them. Keep trying to come up with more ignorance and nonsense in order to condemn me as some terrible sinner. My faith is in God and His Son, Jesus Christ. You clowns think you're supposed to have "Faith" in your false church. Faith in your imaginary "mother of god". I'm very "scared" for you and your utter stupidity. All the rest of your phony explanations aren't worth my time or energy to respond. Have fun convincing yourself of all your church fathers lies and falsehoods. servant of the One and Only Faith
P.S. I hear from you, your church and EWTN all this garbage about Blessed Mary, her rosary and purchasing her paraphernalia, but very little regarding Christ. And yet you clowns insist that you don't worship her. RIDICULOUS IGNORANCE DECEPTION AND LIES!
Are you displaying "willful ignorance" of the verse I've given you regarding, "And call no man your father on earth, for you have one FATHER, who is in heaven." Matthew 23:9
Yet you and your fellow Cathys ignorantly use terms like Holy Father, Church Fathers and calling priests Fathers. Tell me, ignorance or just plain stupidity? How hard is it for you to understand a simple statement from Jesus Christ and realize your church refuses to obey the easiest demands of God? Likewise it can't be considered 'holy' or God or Christs church. That would be period!
Dan,
Getting back to your assertion that Satan would preach Jesus Christ, I think you are confused.Satan knows that Christ is the Son of God but would deny the Incarnation and therefore would not preach him as that would be he casting himself out. He might appear as an angel of light but testing the spirits, if one asks this "angel of light" to confess Christ in the Flesh, you might have a doozy on your hands. Dan, you are most satanically deceived.
Dan,
Apropos to the above, I encourage you to read the following:
The Pope as the Antichrist
It is important for the Catholic apologist to have a good handle on what Scripture does and does not say regarding the Antichrist because the opponents of the Catholic faith have often depicted the pope as the Antichrist.
This was a psychological necessity for the early Protestant leaders because they were in the process of breaking away from what their contemporaries universally recognized as the authentic Church of Christ, governed by the authentic Vicar of Christ. Since breaking with such a body is inconceivable to any one determined to follow Christ’s will, it was necessary for Protestant leaders to deny that the Catholic Church and the pope were these things.
The recognition of the Catholic Church as the one Christ established was so strong—given its centuries of existence, its ubiquity in Europe, and the absence of any plausible rival in tracing its roots back to Christ—that it created severe cognitive dissonance that Protestant leaders had to find ways to overcome. “If it’s not the Bride of Christ then what is it? How can it be explained otherwise?” would be logical questions.
Protestant leaders cast about in Scripture for alternative explanations for a large, false religious system expected to exist during the Christian age. They chose the religious system associated with the beast from Revelation, whom they identified as the Antichrist. They further identified this religious system with the Whore of Babylon, who in Revelation is in contrast to the Church, the Bride of Christ.
They thus came to portray the Church as the Whore of Babylon and the pope as the beast/Antichrist. Only in such a way could breaking away from what everyone recognized as the true Church of Christ be psychologically justified.
Thus the Lutheran Book of Concord states, “The pope is the real Antichrist who has raised himself over and set himself against Christ . . . Accordingly, just as we cannot adore the devil himself as our lord or God, so we cannot suffer his apostle, the pope or Antichrist, to govern us as our head or lord” (Smalcald Articles 2:4:10, 14).
The Presbyterian and Anglican Westminster Confession states, “There is no other head of the church but the Lord Jesus Christ; nor can the Pope of Rome in any sense be the head thereof; but is that Antichrist, that man of sin, and that son of perdition, that exalteth himself in the church against Christ, and all that is called God” (25:6).
The difficulty with the papal Antichrist theory is that while it may have provided psychological comfort to early Protestant leaders, it does not fit the facts as they are presented in Scripture.
Even given the identification of the Antichrist with the beast, the pope is the last person who would fit the biblical requirements for being the individual Antichrist (or any Antichrist). The epistles of John clearly indicate that the Antichrist is one who denies that Christ has come in the flesh. However, the basis for the pope’s position in the Church is that Christ has come in the flesh and has ascended to heaven, leaving the successor of Peter as his vicar or representative on earth.
For the pope to deny that Christ has come in the flesh would be to undercut the basis of his position. Since no pope historically has made such claims, it is easily verifiable that no pope in history has been an Antichrist. Neither will any future pope be inclined to deny the basis of his position. The anti-papal argument simply is not credible.
Further, in Scripture the beast is clearly a political leader, not a Church leader. In fact, the beast is literally identified with one of the early Roman emperors, who had no part of the Church.
"Little children it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know it is the last hour." 1 John 2:18 Approx. 100 AD
Very easy to tell the antichrists of the world. They first are greedy, asking for donations for what little good they do. They call themselves great titles of nothingness, idolaters, sexually immoral and deceiving liars. Show me a church with all of the above, qualities even possessing their hierarchy and real Christians know these are only wolves in sheeps clothing. They are popes, pastors, ministers, cardinals, bishops, priests, deacons and dumb sheep. All those refusing to follow the simple Truths of the Holy Bible and think they have something better or more to offer than Christ and God. Selling books, DVD's, CD's, statues, artwork, rosaries, medals of saints, etc. etc., and just about anything under the sun.
I know you wish to label me in one of the spinoff religions of your false church, but I belong to none of them. I am a Bible following believer, of the One and Only Church of God and His Son Jesus Christ, starting in Genesis, through all the prophets and peaking in the time of Christ, my only Savior and mediator. I have witnessed the physical manifestation of the Spirit in my body and have been blessed to have fellowship with a few true prophets through whom God has regularly defended His beautiful word. We help others with our own funds, not asking for any donations whatsoever and spreading the Lord's Word for FREE. NO COST! You have absolutely no clue as to what God's church really looks like. Quit guessing it's yours. Only a brainless fool would think a filthy church of pedophile perverted leaders could be the One True Church of God. servant of the Only True God
"For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and wonders that would deceive even the elect, if that were possible." Matthew 24:24
This is why you catholics are so deceived, because you are not the elect.
And He replied, "Go and tell this people: 'Be ever hearing but never understanding; be ever seeing but never perceiving.' Make the hearts of this people calloused, deafen their ears and close their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts, and turn and be healed." Isaiah 6:9-10
Your church is definitely in need of a doctor, but since you prefer Mary for all your blessings, your life, your sweetness and your hope, Christ is unavailable and doubt he'll ever be there to heal your terminally ill church. Read the Bible and get away from her, before it's too late.
Dan says:
I thought you were going to stop casting your fake pearls. Seems like you have an unending supply of them. Keep trying to come up with more ignorance and nonsense in order to condemn me as some terrible sinner. My faith is in God and His Son, Jesus Christ. You clowns think you're supposed to have "Faith" in your false church. Faith in your imaginary "mother of god". I'm very "scared" for you and your utter stupidity. All the rest of your phony explanations aren't worth my time or energy to respond. Have fun convincing yourself of all your church fathers lies and falsehoods. servant of the One and Only Faith
P.S. I hear from you, your church and EWTN all this garbage about Blessed Mary, her rosary and purchasing her paraphernalia, but very little regarding Christ. And yet you clowns insist that you don't worship her. RIDICULOUS IGNORANCE DECEPTION AND LIES!
AND
Are you displaying "willful ignorance" of the verse I've given you regarding, "And call no man your father on earth, for you have one FATHER, who is in heaven." Matthew 23:9
Yet you and your fellow Cathys ignorantly use terms like Holy Father, Church Fathers and calling priests Fathers. Tell me, ignorance or just plain stupidity? How hard is it for you to understand a simple statement from Jesus Christ and realize your church refuses to obey the easiest demands of God? Likewise it can't be considered 'holy' or God or Christs church. That would be period!
To the first attack I comment:
Yes, in fact I did. But your incessant attacks on the One True Faith and The One and Only True Church demands a response. You say you have faith in God and in His Son Jesus Christ. That's all well and good but to coin a phrase from St. James: Even the the devils believe and tremble. So your faith is basically in vain because you believe only skin deep. We have not only the skin, but muscles, sinews, bones and organs of the complete faith.
To say that Mary is immaginary is ludicrous. It makes sense that you don't believe that She is the Mother of God since being unchristian in your "belief" you can't fathom that She is. So why is She the Mother of God, well since in orthodox Christian believe (which you are not) we believe that the Second Person of the Most Sacred Trinity, that is, Jesus Christ, if fully God and fully Man. And since He is God then Mary who carried Him to term, is the Mother of God. It's pretty simple and it has been believed since the beginning of the Church.
For your comments on EWTN, well, they are just childish and require no rebuttal because you can't reason with children.
In response to the second attack lets single out the first idiotic statement:
re you displaying "willful ignorance" of the verse I've given you regarding, "And call no man your father on earth, for you have one FATHER, who is in heaven." Matthew 23:9
St. Paul in his epistles says the following:
1 Corinthians 4:14-17 King James Version (KJV)
14 I write not these things to shame you, but as my beloved sons I warn you.
15 For though ye have ten thousand instructers in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.
16 Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me.
17 For this cause have I sent unto you Timotheus, who is my beloved son, and faithful in the Lord, who shall bring you into remembrance of my ways which be in Christ, as I teach every where in every church.
Again, my non-christain christian adversary, you fail miserably.
If Paul refers to Timothy and the Corinthians as his sons (and daughters) in the faith then what does that make him? A "spiritual" father. He has "begotten" them through the preaching of the Gospel. So, again your self-interpretation (not really your own btw since this is a comment lunatic statment amongst fundamentalists) if just plain out of space.
In regard to St. Thomas Acquinas and willful ignorance, you stand convicted. I am not willfully ignorant of my Church's teachings which are scripturally based and I still have much to learn. You, on the other hand, threw the baby out with the bathwater. You do not take the time to learn what exactly the Church teaches from the Church Herself but instead rely upon a so-called mystic lady you get revelations from without testing them.
BLESS YOUR DECEIVED AND ERRONEOUS HEART! Come home to the Way, the Truth, and the Life in His Only Church, the Catholic Church.
Dan G., Maybe I'm wrong. You're not willfully ignorant. You're just plain ignorant and maybe dumb too.
1) Show me where father was capitalized in the verse and where Paul demanded them to call him the TITLE, Father or Holy Father, with a capital F. You FAIL! 1 Cor 4:14-17
2) In regards the "so-called mystic lady you get revelations from without testing them". Everything I read and everything people say I test against the Lord's Word (Bible), especially the crap from you and your phony church. Again, FAIL both you and your church.
3) Jesus is "the Way, the Truth and the Life" and has nothing to do with your false church, the Lost, the False and the Dead. TOTAL FAIL FOR YOU AND YOUR CULT!!
servant Dan, your father and teacher in Christ, IMHO
Dan, read with Dr. Haydock has to say about your assertions that Rev. 17-18 refer to the Catholic Church. Here I will post only the commentary on Chapter 18 which will suffice.
APOCALYPSE 18
In this chapter is a repetition of the fall of Babylon and the mourning of other nations, and their consternation for its sudden destruction, to which may be applied the three mentioned expositions. Among the sorts of merchandise, (v. 13) are mentioned slaves, and the souls of men. Some of our Prot. adversaries (see Mr. Theophilus Higgons) tell us, that it is only Popish Rome that deals with this sort of merchandise. But I must needs say, our adversaries have the misfortune to betray a shameful ignorance, whensoever they undertake to bring proofs to shew the popes to be antichrist. Here it is so evident that by the souls of men are meant only bond slaves, which merchants used to bring and sell at Rome, that Dr. Wells instead of slaves and souls of men, in the amendments made to the Prot. translation, has translated hired servants and bond servants, as Dr. Hammond had before put in his paraphrase, and proved it in his notes. It is from the mysterious visions of these revelations, especially in the 17th and 18th chapters, that divers Prot. writers would make the people believe that all the popes for above twelve hundred and sixty years have been the detestable antichrist, the great whore of Babylon, the monstrous beast with seven heads and ten horns. This new invention, and their wild fancies upon it, are full as monstrous as the beast. The obscurity of the visions furnishes them with a more convenient handle for their main design, which is to make the pope and the popery odious to the people, where they can with less hazard advance their groundless and licentious expositions: and where the expressions are mystical and allegorical, it is no hard matter, said Dr. Hammond, to transform any thing into any thing, and thus to lead the people by the nose, said Mr. Thorndike on this very subject. Never was there a fable invented by men, that pretend to be interpreters of the holy Scriptures, so empty, so incoherent in its parts, so contradictory to the Scripture, and to the unexceptionable authority of the primitive fathers, to use the words of Dr. Wells, who therefore is pleased to own that he is not so sanguine as divers others of his communion, to think that the popes are the great, literal, and famous antichrist, emphatically so called, but by another new invention, as groundless and as frivolous as the former, he would have above two hundred popes for the same term of twelve hundred and sixty years, to have been the mystical antichrist: he does not only mean antichrist improperly and metaphorically so called, as are all heretics who teach false doctrine, and so are adversaries to Christ, of which S. John said, (1 Ep. 2:18) they are become many antichrists. The doctor’s mystical antichrist or antichrists, he pretends were foretold in this revelation of S. John, who were to reign for twelve hundred and sixty days, that is by a new exposition of his learned divines of the reformation, twelve hundred and sixty years, which no one dreamt of before them. I had designed and prepared an appendix to these annotations on the Apocalypse, with a confutation of their arbitrary expositions and groundless arguments; but by the advice of a learned friend, for whose judgment I have the greatest esteem, I shall only give the reader in short what I hope may be sufficient to shew that the popes can neither be that mystical antichrist, nor antichrist emphatically so called: and that both from the authority of Scriptures and of all the primitive Fathers, both of the Greek and Latin Church, in which we find any thing concerning antichrist. It may be observed that the Fathers, or ancient interpreters, sometimes give us their private conjectures and opinions, as S. Augustine takes notice, in which others do not join with them, as that antichrist is to be of the tribe of Dan, a Jew, and chiefly to be acknowledged by the Jews, who will pretend to be their Messias, who is to sit in the temple rebuilt at Jerusalem, to overcome three kings, and seven others to submit to him, &c. These are the suspicions and opinions of some; though none of them favour their system of the popish antichrist. But whosoever consults the primitive Fathers, as I make bold to say I have done with all possible exactness, will find that the Scripture and Fathers unanimously agree in these three following points, (utterly destructive of their systems of the popish antichrist) to wit: 1. That antichrist must be one single man; 2. that he shall not come till about the end of the world; 3. that he shall but reign a very short time. In the holy Scriptures we only find the word itself, antichrist, five times, that is, in the 1st and 2nd Epistle of S. John. In four of these places, he only speaks of antichrists improperly so called, as being seducers and adversaries of Christ; and of the one proper antichrist he only says, (1 Ep. 2:18,) as you have heard that antichrist cometh, or is to come. But it is generally agreed, even by Protestants, that S. Paul (2 Thess. 2) speaks of the great antichrist; and there he is called the man of sin, the son of perdition, he who opposeth, and is lifted up above all that is called God, or that is worshipped, &c. S. Paul also there adds, then that wicked one shall be revealed, (i.e. about the time of the day of judgment,) whom the Lord Jesus shall kill with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: from which it follows, both that antichrist is to be one man, and that his coming and the glorious coming of our Saviour shall concur together. If our adversaries will understand the predictions of the prophet Daniel (C. 7, &c.) of antichrist, and not only of Antiochus, he must also be one particular king, who shall overcome other kings, that little horn that sprang up amidst other ten horns. In the Revelation or Apocalypse of S. John, we no where find the name of antichrist. Secondly, I take notice that divers of the ancient Fathers, as S. Chrys. S. Cyril of Jerusalem, Theodoret, &c. never bring any passages out of the Apocalypse when they speak of antichrist. Thirdly, nor is this to be wondered at, since divers of them by the beast, Babylon, and the scarlet whore, understood the devil, or heathen Rome with its heathen Roman emperors, and taught that all those visions till the 20th chapter are fulfilled already, before the coming of antichrist. Dr. Hammond gives their interpretations in these words, in his first note on the Revel. chap. 18: “What is said of the fall of Babylon cannot belong to Christian Rome, neither to the emperor Honorius, who was then a Christian, and at Revenna, nor to Innocentius, the pope or bishop of Rome, by the ordering of God’s providence … rescued like Lot out of Sodom also at Revenna, nor generally to the Christians, who survived to restore and re-edify the city, a more Christian city than before, but to the heathen part of the city: so that the sum of the fall of Babylon is the destruction of the wicked and heathen, and the preserving of the pure and Christian Rome, and so in effect the bringing of that city and empire to Christianity.” Thus Dr. Hammond. Nothing that the Protestants bring, as I think, has even the face or appearance of an objection, unless it be when they tell us, that by Babylon in S. John’s Revelation is meant Rome; therefore, say they, the Church of Rome must be Babylon, and the scarlet whore that sitteth there must be the pope with his cardinals, clothed in scarlet and purple. I answer: All Catholics, and all men of sense, have reason to wonder and ask by what kind of logic they have hooked or drawn into the consequence the Church of Rome. There is not, as the bishop of Meaux desires the Protestants to take notice, in all these visions and predictions the least hint or insinuation of a fallen corrupted church, but of a heathen city and pagan empire. Many by Babylon understand the multitude of the wicked in general: but we will willingly allow that by Babylon was meant Rome, yet not Christian Rome or the Church of Rome, but heathen Rome and its pagan emperors, with their dress of purple and scarlet. Let me again cite to these our adversaries, the paraphrase of their learned Dr. Hammond, p. 985: “I will shew thee the vengeance that is ready to befal the imperial dignity of Rome, fitly styled the great whore … for their worship of many heathen gods. I saw a woman, that great whore, the imperial power of pagan Rome, seated on an emperor in a scarlet robe, a great blasphemer against God,” &c.—Now as to the ancient Fathers, and what they have witnessed and delivered to us concerning the three above mentioned points. S. Irenæus, on whose testimony the Protestants seem to lay the greatest stress, tells us, (l. v. c. xxx, p. 361. Ed. Rig.) that antichrist shall be a wicked king … who shall overcome ten other kings. He also makes his conjecture on the number of the name of a single man. As to the time of his coming, he says, (p. 363) that it shall be at the end of the world, and when the end of all things shall come. That he shall reign upon the earth three years and six months: or, as he says again, for forty-two months. Rex impius et injustus … novissimo tempore … quoniam finis fiet … regnans annis tribus et sex mensibus, &c. S. Chrysostom: (tom. 6. Nov. Ed. Ben. p. 238) What is the little horn? I say it is antichrist appearing among some kings, and that he is a man, ανθρωπος εστι. See also his 3rd homil. on 2 Thess. Who is antichrist? a certain man, &c. ανθρωπος τις. And hom. iv. Antichrist, says he, will be destroyed by Christ’s coming, &c. Theodoret, on Daniel (C. vii. t. 2, p. 631. Ed. Par. 1642) The little horn is antichrist, &c. And C. xi. He will glorify the god Maozim in this place: which the Protestants may take notice of, that he expounds thus: Instead of the gods which his forefathers adored, he will set himself up for the strong and powerful god, signified by the word Maozim. See on Thess. tom. 3, p. 386. Antichrist is called the man of sin, because by nature a man, who will call himself the Christ, &c, God hath decreed he shall appear at the end of the world: παρα τον της συντελειας καιρον. S. Cyril of Jerusalem: (Cat. xv, p. 162. Ed. Par. 1640): The devil will bring a certain man, a magician, falsely calling himself the Christ. And this will come after the time of the Roman empire, and when the end of the world shall approach: παρα τον της συντελειας καιρον. He shall be destroyed by the glorious coming of Christ. He will act only for three years and six months: επι τρια ετη μονα, και μενας εξ. He brings proofs, p. 165 and 166, to shew that antichrist’s reign will last but three years and a half, being also expressed by months. And these things, says he, we draw from the divine Scriptures, εκ θειων γραφων, yet does not bring any place out of the Apocalypse. I do not cite Hippolytus on the Apocalypse, because that book we now have with his name is thought not to be his. Theophylact, Œcumenius, and Euthymius follow S. Chrysostom. In the BB. Patrum, (tom. 4. Ed. Colon. p. 517) we have a commentary on the Apocalypse of Andreas, bishop of Cæsarea, in Cappadocia, and another (tom. 6. p. 59) of Arethas, bishop of the same city, which is in a manner an abridgment of the former. They both agree that the reign of antichrist will last but three years and a half, for which also they cite Hippolytus. S. John Damascen, in the eighth age, (l. 4. Orthod. fid. c. xxviii. Ed. Basil. p. 389) says that antichrist is to come at the end of the world. None of these writers dreamt that the bishops of Rome were antichrist. The Latin Fathers, upon antichrist, deliver us the very same truths. Tertullian, to omit other places, l. de Resur. carnis. c. xxvii. Those, saith he, in antichrist’s time at the end of the world, &c. S. Cyprian, in the middle of the third age, (Ep. 56. Ed. Rig. and in other epistles) was apprehensive that the time of antichrist was then approaching, as divers of the Fathers feared the same in their time, but he always joins with antichrist the end of the world. Scire debetis et occasum sæculi, et antichristi tempus appropinquasse … prænuntiata sunt hæc futura in fine sæculi, deficiente jam mundo et antichristo propinquante. See Ep. 68. ad Clerum in Hispania, p. 115. See Lactantius, l. 7. div. Institut. c. xvii: Antichrist, says he, will come; imminente jam temporem conclusione, &c. S. Hilary (on Matt. xxiv. can. or cap. 26) tells us, that antichrist is to come when the day of judgment is at hand. See also can. 33. See S. Ambrose, (t. l. de ben. Prophet. c. vii. p. 523) where he also thinks that antichrist will be of the tribe of Dan. See t. 2. in Psal. xlv. p. 1028. S. Jerom (on Dan. vii. tom. 3, p. 1101. Nov. Ed.) says, that by the little horn is meant antichrist. “Let us say what all ecclesiastical writers have delivered to us, that at the end of the world, when the kingdom of the Romans is to be destroyed, there will be ten kings, who will divide among them the Roman world, and the eleventh will rise up, a little king, who will overcome three of those ten … and the other seven will submit to the conqueror.” Take notice, that these words, “what all ecclesiastical writers have delivered to us,” quod omnes ecclesiastici scriptores tradiderunt, in consummatione mundi, quando regnum est Romanorum, &c. are not to be extended to every particular in this sentence, but only to what he and other ecclesiastical writers agreed in, to wit, that antichrist was not to come till about the end of the world, and that the heathen Roman empire was first to be destroyed. But it does not follow, that presently after the destruction of the Roman empire, both antichrist and the end of the world (which others also join together) should happen. This was indeed, for some time at least, the particular opinion of S. Jerom and of some other Fathers; but divers others hold that the Roman empire is now long ago destroyed, though antichrist be still to come. S. Jerom also tells us that ten kings shall divide the Roman world; but S. Augustine puts us in mind, that by ten may be signified many. And besides, there are other expositions on these kings and on Babylon, which are very probable, as shewn already. S. Jerom also (on Daniel, p. 1103) says, the reign of antichrist will last but three years and a half. On the 12th chapter, (p. 1133) he takes notice that the same short time is signified by 1260 days. P. 1127, he tells us Antiochus was a figure of antichrist, but that many things in that prophecy agree better to antichrist himself at the end of the world: rectius in fine mundi hæc facturus est antichristus. See also his Ep. to Algasia, tom. 4, part 1, q. 11, p. 200. S. Augustine began his learned work, de Civ. Dei, soon after the destruction of Rome by Alaric, about an. 410, as he tells us l. 2. retract. c. xliii, though he did not finish these books about the year 427. He is far from finding any certainty of the approach of antichrist, as I shall have an occasion to shew on chap. 20 of this Apocalypse; and shall only here take notice, that he delivers it as a certain truth, that the reign of Antichrist will last but three years and a half, (l. 20, c. xxiii) which he tells us we are the more certain of, the same short time being expressed in the Scriptures by years, by months, and by days: tres annos et semissem, etiam numero dierum aliquando, et mensium numero declaratur. S. Gregory, in his moral books on Job, (tom. 1) makes frequent mention of antichrist, little dreaming that his predecessors for almost two hundred years, that he himself and his successors for so many ages, were antichrist, foretold in the Apocalypse. L. 12, c. xv, p. 410, he says antichrist will be permitted to be exalted for a little time; parvo tempore. L. 13, p. 32, he calls him that damnable man whom the apostate angel will make use of at the end of the world; in fine mundi: and again, (l. 29, c. vii, p. 925,) in mundi termino, &c.—Now to conclude from what hath been said. The Scripture, and all both Greek and Latin Fathers, acknowledge no particular antichrist, properly so called, but him who shall be one single man, who is not to come till about the end of the world, who is to reign but a short time. Let our adversaries reconcile this doctrine with their systems of the popish antichrist, whether emphatical or mystical. They tell us that 1260 days, being prophetic days, must be taken for years; and that just so long must reign the popish antichrist. It is true we have two examples in Scripture, and only two, as the bishop of Meaux observes, in which days are put for years, to wit, Num. 13:34 and Ezech. 4:5 and in both places we are admonished that days unusually stand for years. And certainly, unless we have particular proofs to the contrary, days even in the writings of the prophets are to be taken for days, months for months, years for years. Now in this place, since the same term of antichrist’s reign both in Daniel (to whom S. John alludes) and in the Apocalypse, is also expressed by as many years and months as come to no more than 1260 days, it is manifest that S. John by days means days, and not years. So divers other convincing proofs of this matter in the advertisement of the bishop of Meaux, num. 24. This the ancient Fathers saw very well, and so not one of them understood this of a number of so many years. Yet unless we allow this arbitrary and groundless exposition, that by 1260 days are meant years, the whole system of so many popes being antichrist is utterly destroyed. But let us see what pleasant work they can make of it, if we suppose days to be years; with a second supposition, that above two hundred men are one man; and with a third, that the end of the world, at which antichrist is to come, has now been ending for 1260 years. The popish antichrist, say they, is to last 1260 years and no longer: and they are certain that he began some time in the fifth age, as soon as the Roman empire was destroyed by ten kings; for the popish antichrist was to begin with those kings that began to reign with the beast, and the pope renewed heathenism and idolatry at that very time. From hence they have made different computations: 1. From the year 410, when Alaric, the Goth, pillaged and almost destroyed Rome; add to this number 1260 years, and the antichristian reign of the popes should have come to a period in 1670, or thereabouts. This by the event being found a mistake, others, as Jurieu and Mr. Whiston, found out a new epoch, and dated the beginning of the popish antichrist from the year 455 or 456, under the great, learned, and virtuous S. Leo, when Genseric, the Vandal, again plundered Rome; adding the aforesaid number, and the reign of the popish antichrist was to end in 1715 or 1716. The author of a late book, entitled Charity and Truth, laughs at Mr. Whiston, that he has outlived his nine whimsical demonstrations, by which in his Essay on the Revelation he had shewn that the papacy was to expire in the year 1716. This term being also expired, and this popish antichrist going prosperously on at this present year, (1730) under Benedict XIII. whom even the Protestants themselves, commonly allow to be a very holy and virtuous pope or antichrist, some have computed that the beginning of this popish antichrist may be dated from the year 475, when both the dignity and name of the Roman empire ceased under Augustulus: and thus they may hope for the destruction of antichrist, and (as I think they hold) of the end of the world, just five years hence, 1735. Luther, at the beginning of the reformation, made some pretence to prophecies, as the particulars are related by the bishop of Meaux in his excellent History of the Variations, and among the rest, that the antichristian reign of the popes should come to an end in two years time. Luther’s preaching was to be looked on as the breath of Christ, by which the man of sin, the popish antichrist, should be destroyed, and that whilst he drank his beer quietly at his fireside with his two friends, Amsdorf and Melancthon. See the Hist. of Variations, l. i. and num. ix. if you can—Spectatum admissi risum teneatis. Wi.
Ver. 2. Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen. Idolatrous Rome is fallen. That mighty seat of power and dominion is fallen. The long fixed abode of voluptuousness and luxury, for the merchants of the earth have become rich by the strength of her delicacies, and now the hand of God hath struck her. It is utterly destroyed; not a human being in it. Thus it is become an accursed place, given up for an habitation of devils and a hold of every unclean spirit, or of frightful spectres and ghosts, and a hold of every unclean and hateful bird, of owls, ravens, vultures, &c. &c. Past.
Ver. 4. Go out from her, my people. The people of God, the Christians, are all here told to leave the falling city, lest they be partakers of her sins, and receive of her plagues. At the time of Alaric’s sacking Rome, many fled away to S. Jerom, who was then in Judea; others fled into other parts, as many holy fathers testify. S. Jerom says, (Ep. vii) that S. Paula and several illustrious Christian families had left Rome as if by particular inspiration, and retired into Judea. The holy pope Innocent was drawn by a particular providence out of the city, as Lot out of Sodom, that he might not see the ruin of a guilty people, says Orosius, lib. 7. c. xxxix. We read likewise that Melania, as if she foresaw the approaching catastrophe, had prevailed upon many Christians to retire with her from a city doomed to destruction. Histor. Laus. c. cxviii. In fine, we all know that when the storm broke out, the Christians took refuge and were saved in the Churches of S. Peter and S. Paul, which Alaric had allowed to be places of safety. A.
Ver. 10. Alas! alas! S. Aug. informs us, that the people of the eastern provinces, and the remotest cities, mourned in a public manner on this occasion. De Civ. Dei. l. 1, c. xxxiii.
Ver. 13. We see here enumerated the articles of the luxury of the pagan Romans in dress, in ornaments, in furniture, in equipage, in the sumptuousness of their tables, &c. &c. Nothing is more remarkable than the extravagant luxury and profusion of some of the Roman emperors at their tables. Caligula once spent (according to Seneca) for a supper, 150,000 crowns. Suetonius tells us, that the emperor Vitellius would feast himself thrice, and often four times in a day, spending 10,000 crowns at each meal. But now they are all gone; they are now the fuel of fire, and in one hour brought to nought. A.
Ver. 20. Rejoice … heaven, the holy apostles and prophets, and all the holy ministers of the gospel: and holy men are invited here to rejoice, because the divine justice is accomplished in the ruin of that guilty city. Past.—By the words prophets, &c. are not meant those of the old law, as pagan Rome had not been the cause of their deaths, but here only includes all the prophets, saints, and martyrs, who had been put to death for Christ throughout the whole Roman empire. A.
Haydock, G. L. (1859). Haydock’s Catholic Bible Commentary (Re 18). New York: Edward Dunigan and Brother.
Conveniently avoid Revelations 17:1-9 -
2 "… inhabitants of the earth were intoxicated with the WINE of her abominations. 4 And the woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls. She held in her hand a golden cup full of abominations and the impurities of her sexual immoralities." KJV ends with, "the filthiness of her fornication".
Three sentences describing your winebibbing, greedy, idolatrous, filthy, sexually immoral church and its hierarchy to a tee. Don't forget to tell your purple and scarlet red dressed bishops to drape the deep purple cloth over your Queen of Heaven and other Pachamamas for lent. Go ahead and fill all your gold cups full with the wine of your perversions, for God will soon overflow those cups with the Grapes of His Wrath. Thus saith the Lord. Come Lord Jesus.
I read your nonsense, but I'm not really interested in hearing the longwinded excuses and psychological deflections of your church fathers and the apologists of your cult. They've conned you and millions, but will never fool true Christians, for God protects those who only fear Him alone. You ought to try using your own brain, instead of allowing these hypocrites to control your thoughts. "You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free." John 8:32
I guess some people prefer the easy path to Hell. In these last days it seems there are several "false christs and false prophets" to guide you and lead you down that wicked path. I happen to choose the more difficult and persecuted path and there shall be few to ever find it. I thank my God daily for taking the blinders from my eyes and guiding me through this deceptive and wicked world of deceiving hypocrites, who care only for themselves and their filthy lusts.
Dan the ignroamus says this monumentally stupid thing:
1) Show me where father was capitalized in the verse and where Paul demanded them to call him the TITLE, Father or Holy Father, with a capital F. You FAIL! 1 Cor 4:14-17
What difference does it make? He is referring to himself as a spiritual father. It makes no difference whether or not he capitalzes F in father. Are you for real? If WE were to address him in those times, we would have said Father Paul if we were addressing a letter to him. Now he Saint Paul not saint Paul.
As far as the Holy Father, well, would you address the president as mr. president or Mr. President? To your governor or other local elected official in lower case letters? Are you saying that you should respect no one? Do you not even respect your parents? Dan you are beyond the pale ignorant and childish. FAIL.
It makes absolutely a very big difference. Worshipers of man, rather than God and His Precious Son Jesus, think they deserve Titles, totally lacking in the humility they claim to have. They think they deserve to be recognized as Your Eminence or Reverence, Cardinal, Archbishop, Holy Father, Msgr., Reverend or Father. By the way, all unbiblical poppycock. The very same then turn out to be homosexual pedophiles and perverts, so what would they like to be titled then. I can come up with a few that God wouldn't want me to say.
You can't use your biased idolatrous unholy fathers or Rev. Dr. Haydock quotes as proof of your argument, any more than it would be fair for me to quote Calvin, Luther or Matthew Henry to back up what I claim. I base all my claims and stand on the Lord's Word alone, what I have been Spiritually given along with 'tested' words of knowledge from those God has placed in my life.
You are a totally indoctrinated brainwashed puppet apologist of your church and are gullible enough to believe in all their worthless nonsense, to such an extent that you ignore plain simple statements in the Bible and instead accept the excuses and lies of your hierarchy as gospel truth. This is the false gospel we were warned about.
Look up your titled Rev. Dr. Haydocks interpretation of Matthew 23:9. When he quoted 1 Cor 4:15 he added Father with a capital F to prove his point, but it was not written in any versions I found with a capital F. "S. Paul tells the Corinthians that he is their spiritual Father. "If you have 10,000 instructors in Christ, yet not many Fathers." False interpretation of 1 Cor 4:15.
In the Bible you see Peter refer to Paul without a title of Father or Saint (2 Peter 3:15). Only heathen idolaters think we are supposed to give reverence and honor and raise on pedestals, sinful man, sinful goddesses and sinful saints. In 1 Cor 1:10-12, Paul describes a church divided as being titled with names other than Christ. Is Christ divided? Was Mary crucified for you? Why do you think your church, with all of its divisions, titles and sects, is quarreling so much with each other.
Lastly, I am no respecter of persons, anymore than My God is a respecter of persons. I would never call Trump, Mr. President, when he is as big a liar and pervert as what is found in your church. I think it might even be Trump, should he win in November, who will join with the antichrists of your church and the world and have us worship him, the final Antichrist. He has already hoodwinked many dumb catholic sheep and false christians into voting for him, and now with his stand on abortion he's reeling them in like stupid fish. servant of the Lord
P.S. I definitely respected my parents, but never respected their catholic false beliefs, catholic idolatry or their perverted hierarchy. We happened to get along very well, FYI, doofus.
hrf Dan,
You lack humility, grace and poise. You lack common sense and a knowledge of history ( ecclesial and secular) and have no clue as to what it means to be a christian. All of the information is out there that proves the Church's claims. You disrespect the martyrs from whose blood the Church was fertilized. You disrespect the Mother of God and by extension her Son. You disrespect God the Father and God the Holy Spirit, distinct yet with the Son are One God. You're angry and bitter. You have no authority given you from the Bible. The Bible clearly rebukes you but you don't listen. You're a sorry individual. FAIL.
Show me one place in the Bible where we are told to respect idolatry, goddess or saint worship, sexually immoral pedophiles or perverts, cowards, liars, a corrupt church with a false gospel that displays an unbiblical vocabulary or any other manure from such. I can't even respect anyone who excuses or defends such a religious organization. Sorry.
Your church wrote absolutely nothing in the Bible. NOTHING! God would have found a way to present the Word to His chosen and He will continue to do so. Quit taking credit for the work God has done. While you're at it, stop your lies and accusations of my disrespecting God, Christ or His Holy Spirit. Blatant lies from a church of liars. servant of the Lord
Be certain that I have total respect for all the martyrs mentioned in God's Word. I just can't trust a false church to decide who was a saint or martyr after the Apostles and true disciples of Christ. Knowing some of your church's choices for saints I'm aware of, goddess worshiping pope Piasses, fake stigmatist saint Padre Peehole, the ingrate JP II, faithless mother Theresa and probably soon to be Rat-zinger when he croaks, well it's obvious the church isn't too good at pickin' saints, now is it? Did they canonize the Pachamama yet? I'm sure she'll be next. Now how's that for God-sanctioned disrespect, heathen heretic? servant of the Almighty
Dan says again:
In the Bible you see Peter refer to Paul without a title of Father or Saint (2 Peter 3:15). Only heathen idolaters think we are supposed to give reverence and honor and raise on pedestals, sinful man, sinful goddesses and sinful saints. In 1 Cor 1:10-12, Paul describes a church divided as being titled with names other than Christ. Is Christ divided? Was Mary crucified for you? Why do you think your church, with all of its divisions, titles and sects, is quarreling so much with each other.
Well yes Dan that is true but then again, Peter and Paul were peers. They were spiritual Fathers to their flocks and listeners. So it's not that St. Paul is saying that you should not call him father (he did refer to his listeners/followers as his spiritual sons and daughters which makes him their spiritual father). Let's read the whole verse, shall we?
10Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all [d]speak the same thing, and that there be no [e]divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. 11For it has been declared to me concerning you, my brethren, by those of Chloe’s household, that there are [f]contentions among you. 12Now I say this, that each of you says, “I am of Paul,” or “I am of Apollos,” or “I am of Cephas,” or “I am of Christ.” 13Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?
14I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15lest anyone should say that I had baptized in my own name. 16Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas. Besides, I do not know whether I baptized any other. 17For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of no effect.
So what he is saying is not that you should not call him Father but that you should not divide yourselves into "Paul's camp" or "Peter's camp" but that you should be unified in belief and practice something, I might add, that you do not do. Since you are separated (belong to an heretical sect that is clearly not Christian) from the true source of unity and sanctity found only in the Church Christ founded, you are then faced with the fact that you cause division; very bad. Face it, your "church" is a modern invention that has no basis in fact, scripture, history, belief and practice. Remember that the Church came before your bible and that the Church is the one that made sure that the books contained in your bible were inspired. So once again, Dan, FAIL.
Dan G.,
Do I sense you're letting your anger and bitterness and possible jealously get the best of you?
Dan,
Are you projecting onto me what you yourself are feeling?
Dan the heretic says:
Show me one place in the Bible where we are told to respect idolatry, goddess or saint worship, sexually immoral pedophiles or perverts, cowards, liars, a corrupt church with a false gospel that displays an unbiblical vocabulary or any other manure from such. I can't even respect anyone who excuses or defends such a religious organization. Sorry.
Your church wrote absolutely nothing in the Bible. NOTHING! God would have found a way to present the Word to His chosen and He will continue to do so. Quit taking credit for the work God has done. While you're at it, stop your lies and accusations of my disrespecting God, Christ or His Holy Spirit. Blatant lies from a church of liars. servant of the Lord
Dan, Show me where in the bible does it say the bible alone is the only rule of faith. Show me where in the bible does it say faith ALONE is all that is needed to be saved. Show me in the bible where it says that scripture speaks for itself and then tell me why Phillip had to interpret the sciptures to the eunuch.
Dan, Show me where in the bible does it say that the church is invisible and not visible.
Dan, Explain to me why St. Paul calls his followers his spiritual children and then explain to me what that makes him.
Dan, Show me in the bible where you can be assured of your salvation or once saved always saved and then explain to me Ezekiel 18:24.
Dan, Show me in the bible where Jesus tells his apostles to write everything he said down and then explain to me John 21:25.
Dan, You say the bible is the only thing necessary for faith and morals. Tell me why Jesus established a Church and commanded the Apostles to teach and proclaim the Gospel? Does faith come by reading or by hearing?
Dan, you say you trust no one but the bible yet you hang on every word some unknown unqualified prophetess says. That makes you a hypocrite. Convince me otherwise.
Dan, you say that you don't care about the Early Church father or martyrs yet it was because of their witness that you are able to say you are a Christian, hold a bible in your hands, etc. Yet you deny the Trintiy which is necessary to call yourself a Christian, therefore you are not a Christian but a heretic.
Dan, why if the bible is the only rule of faith, are there so many denominations and cults?
Dan, you can style yourslf a Christian or servant but the fact is is that you are outside your home where you were baptized, received the sacraments, instructed in the One True Fatih. You apostasized and traded truth for a lie. While you still have time, come back home. You need it.
Dan G.,
I asked you to show me Biblical proof that the sins of your church deserve my respect. I get NOTHING! Instead you wish to ask me several of your own madeup false beliefs you think you can pin on me, as if you really know how a real Christian believes. I prefer not to answer to your nonsense and ignorance. Had myself too nice a day in the Lord. servant
P.S. Please quit deceiving others by labeling me the hypocrite or liar, when you know darn well those terms apply to you and your apostate church of heathen heretics.
Back atcha!
Dan, be a man and answer the questions.